Can You Train Effectively For 800m, 1500m, 3k and 5k At The Same Time?

Frank Horwill

Tinman CV training. Hunter's range was pretty good in HS - 1:48, 3:35, 7:51, 13:49

But if he trained for 800m with lots of sprints he would be so much faster and run 1:44! No, just no. The 1:48 which he reached with not a single sprint session (fastest reps were 200s and some non-all-out hill sprints) was likely close to his limit at that time. Even the 800 is 60-70% aerobic that's why CV and tempos are so damn effective.

As noted above:

https://www.brianmac.co.uk/articles/article080.htm

With all of these you want to start the season out with some good mileage, and longer controlled workouts, and lifting weights. The specific distance you're training fart only changes the speed of your workouts later on, if you're training for 5k, then the later part of your season will have more track sessions running around 5k pace and slightly quicker. If you're training 3k speed more sessions will target that pace and slightly quicker, down to the 800 where you'll target 800 pace and a little quicker. For example they can all have 4-6 mile progression runs in the beginning of the year and hill workouts, but the end of the year the 5k runner might have a style of workout like 6 x 800 @5k pace or 4 x 800 @ 5k and 4 x 400 approaching mile. Where an 800 meter runner might run 6 x 200 at or faster than 800 meter pace, or some fast 500's with shorter 150's at the end with big rest

I think the 800 is the black sheep. I think you can train effectively for 1500 through 5000 and there's plenty of evidence to support this as you look at the results of pros like El G, Lagat, etc.

But to excel at the 800 I believe you need very specific training. Obviously you can run a fast 800 off of a 1500 program but to squeeze another 1 or 2s off your 800 time requires specific training that you wouldn't do for 1500-5000.

Not really. If the goal was to score at all these distances, I would train for the 1500. A good 1500 guy will be fast enough to finish well in an 800 and have the endurance to race a 5000. He won't likely be quite as good at other distances as the 1500. To me, for distances, the most analogous events are the 5 and 10 - ie training could be basically the same (a 5k and down guy could get away without true long runs, but a 10k guy prob not) - a steeple specialist probably can race either a good 15 or 5k and a true middle distance runner, an 800 guy who's suffered through xc prob can race a good 1500. If the choice is to score in one event or try to score in multiple, as a coach, I'd think you'd want to gamble on the sure thing - a one event specialist and then throw him in another event if there is a clear indication he's better than all but a handful of athletes in the field.

I could never do it. I always saw it as you could run a fast 800-Mile, or Mile-5k, with the mile being the middle distance that both specialists could excel at. I could always run a fast 800 and ended up runner up at my conference meet in that event, my mile was comparable to my 800, but I was never able to put it together for 5k. My 5k was pathetic compared to my 800 and mile.

ImpossibleForMost wrote:

I could never do it. I always saw it as you could run a fast 800-Mile, or Mile-5k, with the mile being the middle distance that both specialists could excel at. I could always run a fast 800 and ended up runner up at my conference meet in that event, my mile was comparable to my 800, but I was never able to put it together for 5k. My 5k was pathetic compared to my 800 and mile.

I agree, also why if you're trying to do it you'd still be better off training like a 1500/5k runner than an 800/1500 runner. The 15/5 guy will run a way better 8 than a 8/15 guy will run a 5k, even though it'll be a bit off his max potential.

You can definitely have a very good level, but probably not excel unless you're a genetic freak and even then you'd not get at your best level possible in any of these specific event.

But you can definitely train to get in this kind of shape at the same time :

sub 15:20 min 5k

sub 4:00min 1500

sub 1:54 800m.

Starno wrote:

You can definitely have a very good level, but probably not excel unless you're a genetic freak and even then you'd not get at your best level possible in any of these specific event.

But you can definitely train to get in this kind of shape at the same time :

sub 15:20 min 5k

sub 4:00min 1500

sub 1:54 800m.

Thanks for everyone's input here.

I ask this because I'd like to perform reasonably across all these distances this summer. I'm male, 25 and this is my second season running.

Currently, I think I'm in:

800m - 1:58-1:59

1500m - ~4:07

3k - 8:50-9:00?

5k - ~15:40

In summer, I want to get down to:

800m - 1:55-1:57

1500m - 3:55-3:59

3k ~8:40

5k - 14:59

I tend to respond better of less mileage run at a more moderate effort. I don't have a 400-800m guy's speed and have never raced a 400, but reckon I could run a 54 and can bash out 27/28s 200s at the end of workouts. How should I train? And are my goals realistic?

Last week this was my training:

Monday 25 min @ 6:31

Tuesday 12 x 300m (45s) 49.4

Wednesday 25 mins @ 6:22

Thursday 4 mile tempo @ 5:24 + 10 x 30s hills

Friday off

Saturday 20 minutes

Sunday hard long run (50 mins at 5:40)

This week:

Monday 25 mins @ 6:40

Tuesday 4 x 800m (4') in 2:11.9

Wednesday @ 6:33

Thursday 4 mile treadmill tempo @ 5:23

Friday off

Saturday 2(400-200) (4', 2') in 58, 27 (planned)

Sunday 60-70 minutes @ ~6;30 (planned)

Canova would say you cannot be at your absolute best at the 800 if you're PRing in the 5k, and vice versa.

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Tinman CV training. Hunter's range was pretty good in HS - 1:48, 3:35, 7:51, 13:49

Hey Phil, when did Drew run 3:35, 7:51, and 13:49 while in HS?

But if he trained for 800m with lots of sprints he would be so much faster and run 1:44! No, just no. The 1:48 which he reached with not a single sprint session (fastest reps were 200s and some non-all-out hill sprints)

Actually, he did sprint for 60-100m in HS - as part of other workouts.

was likely close to his limit at that time. Even the 800 is 60-70% aerobic

No, just no. Unless you're running maybe 2:20 or slower for 800.

that's why CV and tempos are so damn effective.

So you're doing 3 workouts per week + easy long run or 2 workouts + hard long run, around 40MPW? I've done fairly similar training before. Only difference was I did slightly more mileage but slower off days (more like 50 mins @ 7:00 pace). I also had teammates who did less mileage but faster like you.

I found we raced a really solid 800/1500, a pretty good 3k but the 5k was much worse, even going under 3:55 / 8:30 we couldn't break 15. I don't think your training is bad, you could probably get in the 15:15 range but it's really hard to run to your potential in the 5k off less than 60 MPW.

Basically yeah, but that was the first fast long run I've done this year (since September).

I'm racing three fast 5ks in May, so would it be best to alter my training to something like this?

Monday 25 mins

Tuesday 6(600-200m) (2')

Wednesday 25 mins

Thursday 5 mile tempo

Friday Rest

Saturday 1k, 3x300, 1k, 4x200, 1k (3'. 90s)

Sunday 60-70 mins

Monday 25 mins

Tuesday 6 x 1k (2')

Wednesday 25 mins

Thursday 3-4 mile tempo 6(2x200) (30s, 3')

Friday Rest

Saturday 3(800-200-200) (3', 90s)

Sunday 60-70 mins

Monday 25 mins

Tuesday 8x800m (2')

Wednesday 25 mins

Thursday 5 mile tempo

Friday Rest

Saturday mile, 8x400, mile (3', 90s)

Sunday 60-70 mins

Monday 25 mins

Tuesday 8x400m (90s)

Wednesday 25 mins

Thursday 3-4 mile tempo, 3x2x300m (45s, 3-4')

Friday Rest

Saturday 20 mins

Sunday hard long run (10 miles in ~55-57 minutes)

+1 I agree. The 800 is the most difficult event to fit in to this group.

Absolutely! Look at for example Said Aouita. With a very fast /good endurance capacity runner it`s no problems.I know how to do it the best way, but I need the very fast talented runner to perform it of course. :)

I trust my own judgement more than Coach JS's, so I'm going to just follow my own training plan.

I am running three 5ks in May. The first of these is on the 1st of May, then I have number 2 on the 9th, and number 3 on the 23rd May.

W/C 10th Feb

Monday 25 mins @ 6:40, 30 mins gym

Tuesday 4 x 800m (4') in 2:11.9

Wednesday 25 mins @ 6:33

Thursday 4 mile treadmill tempo @ 5:23

Friday off

Saturday 2(400-200) (5', 3') in 58.0, 28.0, 57.7, 27.3, 30 mins gym

Sunday 65 mins @ 6:12

I'm racing a 1500m on Wednesday. Hope to be around the 4:07 mark.

Han Solo wrote:

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Tinman CV training. Hunter's range was pretty good in HS - 1:48, 3:35, 7:51, 13:49

Hey Phil, when did Drew run 3:35, 7:51, and 13:49 while in HS?

But if he trained for 800m with lots of sprints he would be so much faster and run 1:44! No, just no. The 1:48 which he reached with not a single sprint session (fastest reps were 200s and some non-all-out hill sprints)

Actually, he did sprint for 60-100m in HS - as part of other workouts.

was likely close to his limit at that time. Even the 800 is 60-70% aerobic

No, just no. Unless you're running maybe 2:20 or slower for 800.

that's why CV and tempos are so damn effective.

Han Solo wrote, in part (responding to the claim that the 800 is 60-70% aerobic):

"No, just no."

I'm happy to see that I'm wrong! I knew over time the consensus had gone from being around 50/50 to higher aerobically, but I wasn't aware that it had reached up to 70% for females.