Too much lactic threshold work destroys mitochrondria?

Increasing your anaerobic capacity decreases you aerobic capacity.

Yes, it is true to a degree.

If you do a hard workout which is needed you will cause minor damage the mitochondria to a degree where they will not regenerate within a few days. If you do too many quality and or racing efforts in a short period of time, it will cause damage that will take too long to recover from to be beneficial.

Meant say damage in which they will recover within a few days

Humans do not produce lactic acid. Humans produce lactate acid. Lactate acid is a fuel humans produce when crossing over from aerobic to anaerobic.

yes. You are not a scientist wrote:

Humans do not produce lactic acid. Humans produce lactate acid. Lactate acid is a fuel humans produce when crossing over from aerobic to anaerobic.

Good job.

yes. You are not a scientist wrote:

Humans do not produce lactic acid. Humans produce lactate acid. Lactate acid is a fuel humans produce when crossing over from aerobic to anaerobic.

The mitochondria is also the powerhouse of the cell

not a scientist wrote:

Running too hard too often destroys the aerobic base that you've spent all that time building.

I can't remember where I heard this. Maybe babbled by Sage Canaday?

Is this correct?

The big component is mitochondrial enzymes. During prolonged weeks of aerobic base building, the density of the mitochondrial enzymes increases amazingly. Just like anything there is a sweet spot for optimum enzyme density development. I find the sweet spot and keep it there during all my runs. If I have to walk the hills, I walk them. As the weeks passed by during a 4 to 5 month base building period, my training pace gets faster and faster while holding the same heart rate. It takes self-control to resist the urge to crack up my heart rate. But after trying the other way for many years, I invested myself fully. During three winter base building. I had results that astounded me.

But you have to push the edge. Keep it just below where you're going over beyond the upper limit of aerobic.

Think of it as rolling a ball uphill in one of those little games with the 2 steel rods. You need to study patience.

also I want to know that when I do my base building I make sure I do it entirely on soft surfaces: grass or dirt. The logic is that you maintain optimum flexibility in your tendons and muscles.

That's spring equals free energy and speed.

For a reference my max heart rate is 216.

In the beginning of base building I'll keep my heart rate below 140 for the first 3 weeks. Then I'll let it go up to 148 for one month. And then 155. For me 155 is my sweet spot. And in the third or fourth month I'm doing everything between 148 and 162. The differences in the beginning I was doing 8:30 pace on trails. And in the 4-month I'm doing 6:30 pace at the same heart rate. The reward for the patience is worth it.

After four or five months of that, when I began racing, I feel like I have a V12 engine in my lungs. I'm running fast and my heart rate is up and the overwhelming feeling is that I want to run faster.

Notice that I didn't do this aerobic base building on flat ground. I build my strength by running hilly trails.

Best of luck to you.

yes. You are not a scientist wrote:

Humans do not produce lactic acid. Humans produce lactate acid. Lactate acid is a fuel humans produce when crossing over from aerobic to anaerobic.

You almost had it. It's called lactate, not lactate acid. Just lactate. There is no such thing as lactate acid.

There is no such thing as "aerobic base building." If you aren't generating lots of energy anaerobically, you aren't aerobically either. You're just easy-jogging.

Probably the most important thing you can learn about energy systems, which most runners stubbornly refuse to understand, is that oxygen transport between blood and muscle depends on a high pH difference. You need acidity in your muscles to use lots of oxygen. You lower muscle pH through significant anaerobic energy generation.

Coaches stubbornly refuse to understand that "base building" is merely about seasons and resting. You can't do many serious workouts in cold weather, so you might as well just jog around.

otter wrote:

Yes, it is true to a degree.

If you do a hard workout which is needed you will cause minor damage the mitochondria to a degree where they will not regenerate within a few days. If you do too many quality and or racing efforts in a short period of time, it will cause damage that will take too long to recover from to be beneficial.

Would lifting weights cause a similar damage, reducing aerobic capacity? Or are the bursts of energy required in typical weight lifting more in the ATP whatever system side of things?

I know hypertrophy will slow me down from the weight, but is it also F-ing up the mitochrondria?

Nothing F's up your mitochondria except not exercising.

Don't be stubborn. Look into the science for yourself instead of asking hobby joggers on a message board. These are people who jog slow every day, what do you expect them to say?

Bad Wigins wrote:

There is no such thing as "aerobic base building." If you aren't generating lots of energy anaerobically, you aren't aerobically either. You're just easy-jogging.

Probably the most important thing you can learn about energy systems, which most runners stubbornly refuse to understand, is that oxygen transport between blood and muscle depends on a high pH difference. You need acidity in your muscles to use lots of oxygen. You lower muscle pH through significant anaerobic energy generation.

I am inclined to agree that aerobic base building is a myth; it is nonsensical that high quality aerobic work, such as tempo runs, that involve some anaerobic generation, would impair the aerobic system, as long as one rests sufficiently.

Regarding lowering of acidity, I suppose it is a question of how often. If one is maintaining fitness (seeing improvement in some workouts, and at least maintaining status quo in the others) then it would seem strange to worry too much.

The question is worded in such a way that you already have your answer. If it's "too much" then yes you're going to "destroy" mitochondria. You could have also asked the question, "Too much aerobic work destroys mitochondria?" Same answer, if it's "too much" then yeah obviously.

The question you want to ask is "how can I tell when I'm doing too much?"

inclined_to_agree wrote:

Regarding lowering of acidity, I suppose it is a question of how often.

Not the point.

The rate of gas exchange between blood and muscle increases with the difference in pH. Mitochondria can only use what oxygen is given to them. It makes no sense to expect an increase in their activity if you keep the pH difference low. And it makes perfect sense to expect them to adapt to high oxygen availability, which is provided by so-called VO2max work, by increasing in number and activity.

That acidity is always present in the muscle as long as you're warmed up and running a a decent pace. You don't notice it until the blood can no longer clear it, which causes the blood/muscle pH gradient to plummet, throttling gas exchange and reducing the muscle's output.

Jakob & Filip doing threshold sessions twice a day, twice a week for months on end, seem to be doing just fine.

Bad Wigins wrote:

You can't do many serious workouts in cold weather, ...

Why not?

I'm always interested in training theories. How did you determine that your "sweet spot" was 155? That would seem to be well below your lactate threshold, which I'd guess would be ~170.

there's my star student wrote:

yes. You are not a scientist wrote:

Humans do not produce lactic acid. Humans produce lactate acid. Lactate acid is a fuel humans produce when crossing over from aerobic to anaerobic.

Good job.

Humans DO produce lacTIC acid because of the anaerobic/incomplete breakdown of glucose. That lacTIC acid then disassociates from it’s H+ (acidity) ion; then yes, lactATE is/can be used as a fuel in an aerobic complete energy production.

It’s produced but not in muscle tissue; and further, newer research has been performed alluding that lactate and H+ ions exist independently and not necessarily as a byproduct of dissociation.