Threshold vs Tempo vs Sub-Treshold?

Threshold = 1 hour race pace

Sub-Threshold = Roughly MP

jaroruns wrote:

Threshold = Marathon Pace

Sub-Treshold = Half-marathon pace

Tempo = 10k pace

Lol no. Not even close.

hereypugo wrote:

Threshold = 1 hour race pace

Sub-Threshold = Roughly MP

+1

Another way to put sub threshold is to say marathon pace or steady state.

++1 wrote:

hereypugo wrote:

Threshold = 1 hour race pace

Sub-Threshold = Roughly MP

+1

Another way to put sub threshold is to say marathon pace or steady state.

+2

Tempo seems to capture any pace that is roughly hard.

jaroruns wrote:

I guess it depends on what distance you're training for, but what is the general consensus on what they mean? I've always believed:

Threshold = Marathon Pace

Sub-Treshold = Half-marathon pace

Tempo = 10k pace

I see NAU does a lot of "sub-threshold" work, with their workout video showcasing 8-miles @ ~5:20 pace. This is also at about 7,000 ft altitude.

Thoughts?

Different things for different people, especially 'tempo', but roughly:

-Threshold = 10 mile to half-marathon pace, depending on your fitness (1 hour race pace)

-Sub-Threshold = I guess slightly slower than threshold, so half-marathon to marathon pace for most people

-Tempo = depending of who you ask, anywhere from half-marathon pace to a little under marathon pace.

Personally, I prefer to think in terms of effort and not pace or physiological values, at least as a hobby jogger.

Threshold- 1 hour pace

Sub threhold- 90 minute pace

Tempo- 2 hour pace

Obviously that's just one view, each coach has a different approach with different names

Wow, what a mess. You would think on a site such as this, where most of us claim to be 'real' runners, there'd be some sort of consensus. And actually, it looks like what consensus there is so far, is wrong. Hopefully some others will chime in and get this all straightened out. I'll just look at 'tempo' which more and more as of late has been co-opted to mean all sorts of diff. paces. The original stricter definition of a tempo was 20 minutes at 5K plus yadda yadda yadda (5K plus 15 - 20 seconds for most of us). Not sure who (Daniels?) helped morph that into a continuum where as you extend the distance, you slow down proportionally. Now it seems any 'comfortably hard' run has become a tempo. Not an expert here but I do know there is nothing comfortable about a true tempo run.

kmaclam wrote:

Wow, what a mess. You would think on a site such as this, where most of us claim to be 'real' runners, there'd be some sort of consensus. And actually, it looks like what consensus there is so far, is wrong. Hopefully some others will chime in and get this all straightened out. I'll just look at 'tempo' which more and more as of late has been co-opted to mean all sorts of diff. paces. The original stricter definition of a tempo was 20 minutes at 5K plus yadda yadda yadda (5K plus 15 - 20 seconds for most of us). Not sure who (Daniels?) helped morph that into a continuum where as you extend the distance, you slow down proportionally. Now it seems any 'comfortably hard' run has become a tempo. Not an expert here but I do know there is nothing comfortable about a true tempo run.

"Tempo" is a general term referring to a sustained fast run, so a there's no such thing as a "true" tempo run or a false one. Any coach can define it to mean whatever intensity he wants.

You are correct that Daniels uses it tempo to be synonymous with lactate threshold pace and prescribes 20 minutes' worth of it, and he does also have a chart of adjusted tempo pace showing how much to slow it down for longer runs.

A tempo is a comfortably hard run. I usually start around marathon pace and get faster, and maybe hammer the last mile.

I don't think there's much training benefit in doing borderline time trials in training, as some people appear to do. If I wanted to do stuff at 10k or HM pace I do high volume sets of intervals.

"Lactate threshold" is arbitrary, you accumulate lactate even at much slower paces than what Daniels calls LT.

Hardloper wrote:

A tempo is a comfortably hard run. I usually start around marathon pace and get faster, and maybe hammer the last mile.

I don't think there's much training benefit in doing borderline time trials in training, as some people appear to do. If I wanted to do stuff at 10k or HM pace I do high volume sets of intervals.

"Lactate threshold" is arbitrary, you accumulate lactate even at much slower paces than what Daniels calls LT.

It's fascinating that you do a tempo run in that particular manner but by no means is your usage of the term universally accepted.

The fact that you accumulate lactate at slower paces doesn't make the term arbitrary as it has a scientific definition. However, I doubt there any value testing to find out someone's real LT pace is. Daniels doesn't seem to be hung up on testing for it.

those terms don't work for me.

i go by CV, tempo, long tempo

cv is run in reps, somewhat similar to daniels t pace. I'd say anywhere from 5k +10 to 20 is okay.

tempo is 20 minutes at 5k + 30 seconds

long tempo is 40 minutes at 5k + 1 minute.

there will never be a universal definition for this stuff, so come up with what makes sense to you, and go with it.

Sub-threshold and tempo are the same pace zone.

Supra-threshold - 45 min race pace

Threshold (LT2) - 1 hour race pace

Sub-threshold (LT1) / tempo - 2 hour race pace

Steady state - Marathon pace

Although I go by these guidelines, all of these terms are umbrella'd under "tempo" which is more of an artbitrary term. I just choose to associate it with sub-threshold. You may find people use it for just threshold, or say tempo, but actually go their 10k pace.