If Adam Goucher graduated in 2018, would he get a shoe deal?
College PRs are pretty weak by today’s standards, and even his pro stuff wasn’t all that it has been hyped up to be (except maybe 6th at world XC).
So maybe the question is, with just his PRs would he be considered a top professional today?
3:54/7:43/13:10/27:59
So isn’t his greatness (like Jennings, Fam, and Lincoln) just that he was the best of a very bad late 1990/early 2000s American running culture?
Yes, and American winning NCAA cross would still get a shoe deal.
13:10 definitely gets a deal. PRs are similar to McDonald and he will be a pro.
Well let's assume if he competed as a collegian today his times would be faster. Assuming he still wins NCAA XC. Yes he get's a shoe deal. Just not with Fila.
These times are definitely good enough. Are they his college times though? Pretty sure these are overall PR's, and would he have hit them if he didn't have the support from his sponsors to live the necessary lifestyle that he got right out of college?
His college PRs were:
3:41/7:45/13:31.
He won 3 track and 1 XC title while at Boulder. If distance running had a draft of top runners to the 4 or 5 major shoe companies, I can’t see him going as a first round pick in any year after 1998.
And by today’s standards those times wouldn’t even get him to in a USATF final without Nike’s help. (Oh wait, they didn’t then either...)
Here’s another question for you... does Goucher even make Colorado’s All-Time top 5 in XC team? Probably, but I think it still stands that the book certainly overhyped his talent and ability.
Ritz - The best ever from UC. 27:30 10km, NCAA champ, 3rd World XC juniors
Torres - NCAA XC 3rd, 2nd, 1st
Vaughn? Not an NCAA champ but faster than Goucher 13:16/13:31
Scrutton? XC Champ and WR holder while at UC
Culpepper? Better speed in college 3:39/3:41
postnups wrote:
Yes, and American winning NCAA cross would still get a shoe deal.
What? And? What??
Not a chance. He sucked.
Urbaneteacher wrote:
Ritz - The best ever from UC. 27:30 10km, NCAA champ, 3rd World XC juniors
Scrutton? XC Champ and WR holder while at UC
Which Cal campus did these guys go to? Or did you mean CU?
I appreciate how silly it is that University of Colorado becomes CU, but deliberately getting it wrong makes you look incompetent.
ThatAverageRunner wrote:
postnups wrote:
Yes, and American winning NCAA cross would still get a shoe deal.
What? And? What??
Auto-correct or fat-finger turned “an” into “and”. My apologies. Hopefully your brain didn’t hemorrhage.
Urbaneteacher wrote:
Here’s another question for you... does Goucher even make Colorado’s All-Time top 5 in XC team? Probably, but I think it still stands that the book certainly overhyped his talent and ability.
Ritz - The best ever from UC. 27:30 10km, NCAA champ, 3rd World XC juniors
Torres - NCAA XC 3rd, 2nd, 1st
Vaughn? Not an NCAA champ but faster than Goucher 13:16/13:31
Scrutton? XC Champ and WR holder while at UC
Culpepper? Better speed in college 3:39/3:41
What a silly question?
He won NCAA cross and Took some decent scalps.
Cross country is never about times it’s about running your best on a certain course and he did that.
Ok, I kind of like how the OP makes you think by using misleading stats but this really is a stupid thread in the end.
Of course he'd get a shoe deal. And a big one.
Just beause his times weren't great doesn't mean he wasn't a great runner and MEGA TALENT. Back then, college runners didn't time trial under the lights in perfect conditions all the time. Do you not realize that Chris Solinsky's college PB was 13:27?
Please remember who Goucher beat at 1998 NCAA XC. He beat runner-up Abdi Abdirahman, who is still pulling in a shoe deal 20 years later and has had a great pro career, by 23 seconds. He beat Beranrd Lagat who likewise still has a shoe deal 20+ years later by 54 seconds.
His Tully speed rating from his 1993 FL championship win is the 2nd highest ever recorded (just behind Ritz and just ahead of Solinsky). Guy is just of big of a talent as any American born human.
http://www.tullyrunners.com/articles/HighNationalSpeedRatings.htm
Definitely. Obviously it wouldn't be identical because Fila isn't throwing around money at runners today like they were 20 years ago, it might be with one of the traditional shoe brands for a little less, adjusted for inflation. Better question is: does he stay with Wetmore after graduating or does he go off to an established pro group like Bowerman TC or NOP right away?
urbaneteacher wrote:
If Adam Goucher graduated in 2018, would he get a shoe deal?
College PRs are pretty weak by today’s standards, and even his pro stuff wasn’t all that it has been hyped up to be (except maybe 6th at world XC).
So maybe the question is, with just his PRs would he be considered a top professional today?
3:54/7:43/13:10/27:59
So isn’t his greatness (like Jennings, Fam, and Lincoln) just that he was the best of a very bad late 1990/early 2000s American running culture?
How old are you? You are a special kind of moron. If you are just 25, you get sort of a pass as there is no way you could have ANY FEEL for how he compared to his peers from 1995-2005. But you are still a moron.
My hunch is that you ARE NOT 25, but maybe just not old enough to have a strong handle on the competition and the scene during that era, but your take on it is still wrong.
Urbaneteacher wrote:
Here’s another question for you... does Goucher even make Colorado’s All-Time top 5 in XC team? Probably, but I think it still stands that the book certainly overhyped his talent and ability.
Ritz - The best ever from UC. 27:30 10km, NCAA champ, 3rd World XC juniors
Torres - NCAA XC 3rd, 2nd, 1st
Vaughn? Not an NCAA champ but faster than Goucher 13:16/13:31
Scrutton? XC Champ and WR holder while at UC
Culpepper? Better speed in college 3:39/3:41
Culpepper in CU XC top 5? He never even cracked the top 10 at NCAA XC champs. Goucher placed 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 6th at NCAA XC champs.
urbaneteacher wrote:
If Adam Goucher graduated in 2018, would he get a shoe deal?
College PRs are pretty weak by today’s standards, and even his pro stuff wasn’t all that it has been hyped up to be (except maybe 6th at world XC).
So maybe the question is, with just his PRs would he be considered a top professional today?
3:54/7:43/13:10/27:59
So isn’t his greatness (like Jennings, Fam, and Lincoln) just that he was the best of a very bad late 1990/early 2000s American running culture?
His 3000 Personal Best is 7:34.96, and his 3:36.64 for 1500 is better than a 3:54 mile.
Yeah, he'd get a shoe deal. That was easy. Okay , what's next?
Yes of course he'd get one. 7:46/13:31 are still great times for a collegian.
why would he be faster? he literally never approved again for the rest of his life. he maxed out in college.
and his era -- late 90s/early 2000s produced all the major WRs. so it's not we can say training has improved since then.