How much does MPW help race times?

In most cases, it will be the single greatest factor in improved performance at those distances.

David Brent wrote:

In most cases, it will be the single greatest factor in improved performance at those distances.

Really? Wow...I knew high mileage was good for creating a base, not necessarily allowing you to PR on its own. Thanks!

It's not that simple.I actually think HOURS PER WEEK is more important, but Americans love to tally up their mileage and boast about it.

Just.wondering wrote:

If one were to be hitting a higher mpw than normal--in this case, 70-80 mpw--how much would this help race times without speed training? Such as over the 3k-5k distances?

David Brent wrote:

In most cases, it will be the single greatest factor in improved performance at those distances.

Right. Yes, a big base is great because it lets you handle a bigger sharpening workload - but the primary benefit is the improved aerobic fitness from all those miles.

There's a sweet spot between intensity and miles. For instance, if a 15:00 5k runner was to do 100mpw of 9:00 pace runs, vs 80mpw of 7:00 pace, I'd expect better performance from the lower miles. At extremely slow paces, aerobic benefits drop off quite a bit. But most runners err on the fast side anyway, so with any sane plan, more miles = better aerobic fitness = distance PRs, even in the 3-5k range.

David Brent wrote:

In most cases, it will be the single greatest factor in improved performance at those distances.

Really? So if I double my mileage from 35 to 70, I should be able to PR at a 5K?

My training runs are averaging ~1:00 per mile slower than a couple years ago, when I last PR'd at a 5K. At the time, I was also doing around 35 mpw, but was doing weekly speed workouts with the local track club.

You need both mileage and speed if you want to improve. The challenge is how to get through it healthy. As someone else stated, it's not that simple.

Not that simple wrote:

I actually think HOURS PER WEEK is more important, but Americans love to tally up their mileage and boast about it.

That's probably more or less true - but then how many HPW? I've seen ~10 suggested as ideal many times here, but I'm guessing at around 7-8 is where you see the majority of the benefits.

autoxfil wrote:

There's a sweet spot between intensity and miles. For instance, if a 15:00 5k runner was to do 100mpw of 9:00 pace runs, vs 80mpw of 7:00 pace, I'd expect better performance from the lower miles. At extremely slow paces, aerobic benefits drop off quite a bit. But most runners err on the fast side anyway, so with any sane plan, more miles = better aerobic fitness = distance PRs, even in the 3-5k range.

So here's my next question: Is it better to split up mileage on days during the 70+mpw or do them in all one bout? I've ran 70 mpw once, but did the runs each day in one interval. Is there any benefit to either side (besides running twice a day improving recovery)?

Just.wondering wrote:

So here's my next question: Is it better to split up mileage on days during the 70+mpw or do them in all one bout? I've ran 70 mpw once, but did the runs each day in one interval. Is there any benefit to either side (besides running twice a day improving recovery)?

You are not going to get consistent answers on this, and you can find lots of opinion threads on doubling here. In general, doubling is definitely good to experiment with and see how you react to it. Also, it sort of depends on the target race. So for 3-5k, doubling at 70mpw would be a logical thing to try.

not I said the flea wrote:

You are not going to get consistent answers on this, and you can find lots of opinion threads on doubling here. In general, doubling is definitely good to experiment with and see how you react to it. Also, it sort of depends on the target race. So for 3-5k, doubling at 70mpw would be a logical thing to try.

Alright, excellent! I'll definitely experiment with it one I start reaching that mileage--hopefully--in a few weeks! Cheers!

Just.wondering wrote:

So here's my next question: Is it better to split up mileage on days during the 70+mpw or do them in all one bout? I've ran 70 mpw once, but did the runs each day in one interval. Is there any benefit to either side (besides running twice a day improving recovery)?

There is a benefit to singles - longer aerobic runs produce a stronger aerobic training stimulus, and have a greater effect on certain aspects, like glycogen storage and muscular fatigue.

There is a benefit to doubles - aerobic training stimulus has a short half-life, so the primary adaptations to an easy aerobic run are well underway within 12-24 hours. Doubling allows the same level of stimulus for mitochondrial density, capillary growth, and other critical adaptations.

If you are constrained by hours, I suggest singles only. If you have 10 hours to dedicate to running, chewing up more of it with showers and changing is not going to help. And, you generate more total training stress from those longer singles, which is probably what you need if hours, not fatigue is capping your mileage.

Many people seem to be able to fit in as many miles as they can physically handle. If that's you, I suggest doubles at least some days, at a higher mileage than you could handle in singles. For instance, if you're running 70mpw in singles, and recovering fine, take your 8-mi easy days and replace them with 6/3 doubles, or 10-mile moderate days and do 8 moderate and 4 easy. You'll add a few miles per week, and possibly reduce total training stress, recovering faster than with singles. The extra aerobic hit to your system will also make sure your body keeps adapting all the time, never letting up.

That's all extremely helpful! Thanks for taking the time to write all of that! And especially thank you for your help!

Just.wondering wrote:

If one were to be hitting a higher mpw than normal--in this case, 70-80 mpw--how much would this help race times without speed training? Such as over the 3k-5k distances?

If you're at 65mpw right now it may not help you that much but if you're at 45-50, hitting 80mpw will def help you. For me 100 mile weeks are what got me really fit. You have to work your way up tho you can't just jump up and start doing crazy workouts. I would say at least eight weeks of getting up there and getting comfortable with that. During those eight weeks you can do strides and tempos or something like 200/400 and tempos while you adjust. Once you're adjusted you should be able to have very good workouts and crush your races. I don't have a lot of speed so I would do longer tempos for strength and do some 400 or Mike repeats to get sharp (but I was worse at those). The biggest difference for me (in having the miles under my belt) is that I didn't fell tired in races or on runs. I had limits in races but after the race I could run ten miles no problem. On a normal workout day I would warm up with five miles then workout for five miles then cool down for five miles. This is what worked for me. This will not work for everyone. Everyone is different. You have to experiment and find your comfort zone. In hindsight I realize that I neglected my speed too much because I have none. It was much easier to develop my strength. I am going to try and get back in shape over the next year and train the same way but be more diligent about my speed.

I'll be honest, I can race any distance well when I'm running high mileage. It's because it teaches consistency, and permits a ton of strength. I think mileage should be your main focus, if you want to make a big jump or cut a chunk of time off.

23.7

TDodd22 wrote:

I'll be honest, I can race any distance well when I'm running high mileage. It's because it teaches consistency, and permits a ton of strength. I think mileage should be your main focus, if you want to make a big jump or cut a chunk of time off.

I agree with this. I feel invincible and totally indestructible when I'm running high mileage. I also can eat anything I want (and probably should).

That was all superbly helpful! Thanks, everyone!

Yes. This is what works with me and the same with fatigue and recovery, while i dont have natural great speed. I went from 50-70 no problem, recovered well and would mainly do 400-800 reps at 10k effort just to keep ticking over. Easily pbing in all distances. I want to go to 80 now