Best Middle Distance Training Approach

I think that you need to take some aspects of both schools of thought in order to come up with a solid middle distance plan. Personally I would cut down on some of the hill training that Lydiard suggests. A hill training phase is good, but I know many people who've gotten injured running that many hill sessions per week. Even Snell wasn't able to run the complete Lydiard program for many years. On the other hand the Lydiard program is great because of the emphasis on high mileage and tempo/threshold runs. Lydiard really doesn't use the same terminology (tempo/threshold), but he calls this being "pleasantly tired" when finished. I like the Coe plan because it's big on never ignoring any facet of training throughout the year. I think it's good to do an occasional light speed work and lot of strides even during your base work. This will keep you from wrecking your body once the real speed work starts later in the year. The big pitfall to avoid with Coe is to not get too stressed about fitting all of the different type of work every week that his plans seems to suggest. I find his training plan guideline in "Better Training for Distance Runners" to be a bit overwhelming, and hard to put into practical use.

One thing to keep in mind with Lydiard. He does not preach long slow distance (LSD). He stresses the need during the aeobic build up as fairly fast long distance.

Obviously if you're looking for the best plan, it'd be a combination of the two. But if you're just going to follow a pre-written plan, go with Coe. Coe's training has produced much more effective middle distance results than Lydiard.

"They believe that longer, slower training makes longer, slower runners."

What is a "longer runner"?

Lydiards system produced only one runner, who, running today, would be competitive - and that is Snell. And that is not due to 100miles a week at bullshit pace, but because the guy was born as strong as an ox, and bought up on a NZ farm, where in his childhood, his lifestyle dictated he just became muscularily stronger and stronger. You are semi-right about Kiprotich. But he was still a very untidy and erratic runner. Im not taking anything away from his silver at the Olympics, but in all honesty, these were slightly lean years for the 800m. Sure, Kiprotich ran slow miles, but its worth noting, that this phase NEVER lasted as long as Lydiard. I did have his training printed out off a website, but I lost the link - anyway, it said that he started anaerobic work as early as March, and did a lot of interval work as well - over 600m, and 400m - thats something Lydiard never did with Snell. I think Joaquim Cruz OG 1 '84, 2 '88, and 1min41.78) puts it perfectly when he says that he wouldnt bother getting out of bed to run anything slower than 6 minute mile pace. Why? - well he just says this. You take someone like Geb - who has run 2min06 for the Marathon - the guy can also run 3min33 for 1500. He is running the Marathon at 3minutes per kilometer pace, El G runs his mileage (according to website at 3min00-3min10/km - more than likely a little slower, but thats still incredibly intense) and most 5-10 guys are running anything up to 100 miles a week at roughly 5min30 per mile pace. Then how in the hell can you produce fast 800m/1500m runners, when you are constantly training at 4min10-4min20/km speed? I dont think you can. I cant think of one top 800m/1500m runner, that I have even heard a rumour of them training at this speed. Lydiards methods are outdated. They were fine back in the 60's, but the depth and quality of athletic performance these days is so much more, that his methods just cant work. Anyway, thats just my opinion.

You seem to be of the impression that Lydiard was a proponent of running slow mileage. While it is easy to get that misconception reading some of Lydiard material, it is not true. Lydiard DOES NOT PREACH LONG SLOW DISTANCE. He was a proponent of running a great percentage of base training at a pace which he described "pleasantly tired." To put "pleasantly tired" in perspective one must remember that many runners in Lydiard's time were running their training runs like time trials. A run at "Pleasantly tired" effort would be considered a harder run for most runners today that are brought up in a LONG SLOW DISTANCE system. I be willing to bet that for world class runners like El G, pleasantly tired is around 3:00-3:10 per km. The biggest problem with Lydiard's main concept isn't that it's outdated, but rather that it's poorly explained. Far too many people try his training plans not knowing that there doing them entirely wrong.

Here is the BMDT-Approach, ready......?

Run alot, taper abit, work in some faster stuff (races + light workouts), taper somemore, race alot with tons of rest+jogging, mentally prepare, peak event.

I should come up with a book on my on method. It would be called rythm training. We know that hill work outs work and so doesn't LSD. We also know that problems exist with not being motivated enough and burn out. I say--if you want to run hills, then do so. But if you get a significant training and desire to run a flat course over hill work outs--then forego the hills altogether. If you feel a need for a stronger aerobic base, then by all means consider LSD over any speed work out or hills. Whatever you can put the most rythm into with regard to motivation, then that is what you should do. There is no set pattern that is best. I repeat, there is no set pattern that is best. However, if you get into a pattern that you really like, then stick to it. Don't let the potentiality of getting hurt on running hills make you not run hills when that is what you want to do. People get hurt on hills mainly because they are doing them when they would rather not.

Dan Craig

as nearly stupid as that may sound, you're on to something there-- if you can stay healthy and motivated for a long period of time, regardless of the structure of your training, you'll run pretty decent... listen to your body-- it craves certain things for a reason...

Lydiard was not limited to Snell.

Walker, Dixon, Quax are all Lydriard-ites via Arch Jellies.

Morceli's training is very Lydiard-esque, as well as Tergat and Gebrsellassie.

The whole Run With the Best system is founded in Lydiard.

On the subject of slow running -- it's all going to be relative. A lot of the mileage -- non specific work -- is done right around aerobic conditioning pace whihc is about 60-75 sec per mile slow than lactate threshold pace. When Tergat's big miles are at 5:40 pace that's his AC pace. That would be no different than a 27:00 college 8k runner running his miles at 6:50/mile.

Would it hurt anyone to run slower? Not really. You're still getting the volume in, although you do get more bang for your buck with the AC miles. Running slower is safer and probably better for under-developed athletes.

...And look at this

The estimated aerobic conditioning pace for Paul Tergat based up his 26:28 10k is between 5:52 and 5:20 per mile.