Challenge to "Ah"

2003: I suggest you look at the names in the top 10

in the Jr.World XC championships over the last 10 years.

Then go look at the leaders lists in Track and Field News

over the last 8-9 years and get back to us.[quote]runner2003 wrote

For starters, you can go to gbrathletics.com ... if you look at the world junior winners, yes, there's Geb and other stars who medaled or won, but there's plenty of others who haven't. It won't cut and paste onto here, but look and you'll see. There are even fewer who made the jump for women. The pattern's pretty similar for the US.

The following males were junior medalists between 1986 and 2002, mixed among the Gebs, Mezegabus and Woldes:

Peter Chumba, Henry Kirui, Abreham Assefa, Regasa Habte, Giuliano Battocletti, Kipchumba Mitei and Aaron Gabonewe, Francesco Bennici. Heard of any of them?

How about these women?

Cleopatra Palacian ROM

Ann Mwangi KEN

Simona Staicu ROM

Philippa Mason GBR

Yimenashu Taye ETH

Edna Kiplagat KEN

Etaferahu Tarekegne ETH

Yvonne Lichtenfeld GDR

Or put another way, I'd say it's fair to say that just 9 of the 22 medalists in the girls 3k, for example, from 1986-2000, have become senior stars. Look at the list (http://gbrathletics.com/ic/wj.htm) and see if you can argue differently. I'd say it's fairly accurate to say that in any country, over time, about 30-45 percent of female junior stars become senior stars. The percentage is probably a little higher for males, maybe 45-60 percent.

The point is, only a percentage of junior stars turn into senior stars in Kenyan and European countries, too! It's not just a US problem; it's the way it is.

Kenyan, Ethiopian, British, Italian and Romanian juniors burn out, too!

I'm not saying our system is perfect. I personally think we need better prep coaches, two-sport (not CC/Ind/Out) calendars for distance runners, elimination of 3-meet weeks and so on. If some groups can start some successful youth clubs, then great. But we are also up against many more sports competing for the kids then these other countries are. If you can solve a problem, then more power to you. But ranting forever about it solves nothing. "Ah" and his previous incarnations are full of complaints and few solutions. His pro track package isn't bad, but where are his solutions to his junior gripes? Why isn't he being up front about who he is and using his coaching expertise to drum up support? No, he's sitting in the shadows complaining.

LOL. Actually, there are no US kids on these lists to

"burn out"! Duh.

Maybe you have shown him the errors of his ways, runner2003!

observer wrote:

http://www.gbrathletics.com/ic/wj.htm

LOL. Actually, there are no US kids on these lists to

"burn out"! Duh.

Egads! you are right--from the 800m on.

First of all, it is irrelevant whether or not certain top juniors become top seniors from other countries in relation to our junior demise. Their pool of junior runners is far deeper than Americans and proper training would allow lesser developed junior level runners to succeed at the top level just as well. Furthermore, do not assume many top senior runners in other countries compete extensively at the junior level. Some of the top senior runners in other countries picked up the sport later and trained extensively for years until they were ready to compete at the world class level.

I cannot explain why certain top juniors from other countries didn't remain on top as seniors. Some countries draft youth into the military and that can affect whether or not they can even train. Unlike America, the reasons may not be training related but culturally related and out of the individual's control.

No, you're wrong again. Most of the junoirs we hear about burnout, and the african training system burns out as many if not more athletes than our training does. You just don't hear about those ones. It has nothing to do with the military- most of the top Kenyans are already in the military, because it is free food, shelter, etc. and gives them plenty of time to train.

Syd wrote:

No, you're wrong again. Most of the junoirs we hear about burnout, and the african training system burns out as many if not more athletes than our training does. You just don't hear about those ones. It has nothing to do with the military- most of the top Kenyans are already in the military, because it is free food, shelter, etc. and gives them plenty of time to train.

Show us a link that proves your statement. Even if Africans were burning out at least they are burning out at world-class levels whereas our runners are mostly burning out in high school and college, far from world-class levels.

Ah-meister, you are on target in saying our sport needs restructuring and in saying our junior runners are for the most part getting inadequate development or are being outright ruined by overracing. I've even joined in on the bashing of the high school system, because it deserves a good tongue-lashing and a major overhaul. But at some point, the bashing becomes tiresome and the words (much like "jiminy jillickers") lose all meaning. What SOLUTIONS can you recommend? You will have more people on your side if you can come up with some ideas (they don't even have to be workable ones - just ideas, period). If you can't, the number of people in your corner will continue to dwindle.

The solutions I have (though they might only be achieved through micromedia) are education on sound fundamentals and the possibility of a coaching network around the country, the latter of which would consist of coaches who see the need for different HS training and racing, and which would be dedicated to long-term development of young runners. Those might be fairly paltry ideas, but they're thoughts nonetheless. Where I need assistance (if the ideas are workable at all) is in IMPLEMENTATION. So, once again, do YOU have any concrete ideas?

D3 Coach a lot of their best runners have made world class as juniors. Our runners in america burn out because lack of cross training and no long range planning--and what I mean by long range is something a little farther than the end of a running season. Take a typical 10 year old talented kid--for example. He may join some club or maybe have some way to compete in the fall--he is expected to peak at least by end of fall season--then spring comes around and it is the same thing. So, let's pretend our 10 year old is a serious competitior and his parents are doing what they can to help him fulfill his goals. do you think there will be any serious training for him to reach some significant goal by the time he reaches 16? Just the opposite. He will be expected to perform well and to peak well in a drastic way--at least 16 times before he reaches 16. that's a lot of pressure. Even if he does have the legs for it--his mind by the time he reaches 17 will be saying NO. So, he will burn out long before he has even had a chance to reach his potential.

JK, you obviously missed my previous post where I left you my email address to explain my solution and why I didn't want to post it on any message boards.

If you can't share them with the public and do, more or less, as JK has done, then you are pretty worthless, "Ah."

JK thank you for saying something constructive.

And Ah, if you're not going to put a solution, I and many others would appreciate it if just about every thread you post says "US high school system sucks". Indeed it may suck but we don't need to read the same thing over and over unless you are going to add something new to the debate. I'm singling you out a bit, but it's people posting the same thing over and over that made me thinking of limiting the number of posts people can post in a day.

Interesting.