ttc wrote:
Lukas won "only" 1 Footlocker (I don't think he won 2). But he also won NIKE the same year. Plus, he was a sub-4:00 miler & sub 8:30 2-miler in HS. Not to mention, he was every bit as dominant as Grant.
Neither was Ritz in HS XC. But Lukas was at Grant's level, yet his name's never mentioned, that I've seen.
What does this sentence mean: "Neither was Ritz in HS XC."?
One thing that LV did not do is run with his school. He ran no competitions other than those required by ILHSAA to go to States (where he hoped to break CV's 13:50 record).
Same thing in indoor track and outdoor track. When Ritz was running, even in his soph and junior year, he would run the 4x800r, 800, 1600 indoors or even the 4x800r, 1600, 3200.
Same thing outdoors. He ran ~30 races indoors and out, maybe MORE. His senior season was muted somewhat by training for WJCCC and the World Trials (where Teg beat him), and his sub-13:44 quest outdoors.
Had he not chased those two things I think he could have made a bigger impact with attempts at sub-4:00 and sub-8:36.3y. I thought so at the time, and still think so.
HE made a big impact (at the time) with his WJCCC 3rd-place, but it is not something that people remember for very long. Jeff Nelson's record stood for 29 yrs. Ritz could have held it until LV put it out of reach. Maybe he intended to do all these things, since he allegedly wanted to run just the 3200 at State and he got friction from the school over this. He went out in 2:07, 4:17 at State and slowed to an 8:43 on a COLD and windy day.
Maybe he knew better about an attempt on the sub-4:00. I always thought he was capable of 3:59-high in good conditions. He had run 4:05.9 as a junior in a dual meet (where he ran 3 events) and had run several 800r legs as fast as 1:53 ... maybe faster.
But anyway, to your point, LV was basically a PRO while in HS. He and his parents set out make every race for his benefit. For that reason, I have a hard time comparing him to the other all-time greats like Virgin, Rick Riley, Chapa, McChesney, Lindgren, Hulst, Zishka, SOOOO many form California, etc.
In an idealized race ... I actually think LV might beat all of them except Lindgren. Lindgren ran 4:01y 50 yrs ago, and he ran 9:00, then 8:46, then 8:40 indoors. Losing ONLY to Gaston Roelants (2 mile WR holder, Steeple Gold Medalist - THAT YEAR) and Ron Clarke (I don't have to explain Ron Clarke). He showed he had ability similar to LV outdoors by running world class times outdoors in the 1M, 2M, 3M and 6M and 5k/10k that Spring. Times like 4:01y/13:17y same meet - dirt track. He made the Olympic team that year and ran 9th in the 10k where Mills won gold in an OR of 28:24.
I have a hard time seeing LV beating Ritz and Virgin, because only two of his races are more impressive than almost anybody else's (his 3:59y and 8:29y), but I gotta admit that he was quite a bit faster than all of history, no matter what the conditions or excuses (by me) are.