I am 18. Am I too young to start focusing on marathons?

chiefwahoo_isahoax wrote:

I am a 17:3x 5k runner so obviously shorter distances are not my forte...

You probably don't know this. What evidence do you have that you're not good enough to run a faster 5k time? Moreover, you can run all the miles you want, but your ability at the 5k will limit your ability in the marathon. If you are more of a "slow-twitch" individual, this is particularly so.

Show me someone who runs a sub 2:20 marathon and can't run sub 17 for the 5k.

I respond to you wrote:

chiefwahoo_isahoax wrote:

I am a 17:3x 5k runner so obviously shorter distances are not my forte...

You probably don't know this. What evidence do you have that you're not good enough to run a faster 5k time? Moreover, you can run all the miles you want, but your ability at the 5k will limit your ability in the marathon. If you are more of a "slow-twitch" individual, this is particularly so.

Show me someone who runs a sub 2:20 marathon and can't run sub 17 for the 5k.

You have a point. I just don't want to keep focusing on the shorter distance. Won't putting in more miles make me faster anyways? That seems to be the LetsRun consensus around here. Nobody running 100mpw is running over 17 for 5ks

I think what we learn from the Kenyans is that you can go to the marathon at a young age, but to do so adequately, you need to have a big foundation of miles. Sammy Wanjiru ran really fast times really young but he likely started running very young and had likely 25000+ lifetime miles when he started marathons.

I'd say after xc, raise your weekly mileage to 70-80 for a full training season but focus on 5k/10k. Just do a workout on Tuesday at 5k/10k pace for 2-3 miles of volume (if doing 5k pace) or 4-5 miles of volume (if doing 10k pace), and a tempo on Friday of 3-5 miles.

After doing that for 1-2 seasons, you'll have a big foundation. Raise the mileage to 90-100 a week and still focus on 5k/10k. After another 1-2 seasons of doing that, you'll be 19-20 with a huge base of miles on your legs as well as having developed your 5k/10k times exponentially. Then you are ready to do marathon training.

For marathon training, there are a lot of different approaches and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. When ready for marathon training, find a private coach that you trust and have them coach you up. Some elite runners are getting into private coaching to make extra money on the side. Ryan Vail does this I believe. Also, some Hansons Brooks athletes do this as well. Expect it to cost at least $100 a month though, but that seems worth it to have a 2:12 or faster marathon guy coaching you.

Running a lot of miles isn't going to be bad for you, per se. However, you shouldn't jump from 40 mpw (just for example) to running 100 mpw overnight. You need to make a steady progression. And putting in those long "easy" runs is important for aerobic development... BUT you can't run long and slow all of the time or you'll just become a slow runner who can only run long. That's no good, and I'm sure you don't want that!

There's a misconception that base building is all miles all easy. This is false. Yes you'll do a lot of easy miles... but there are many aerobic paces other than easy! And racing every once in a while is not a bad idea.

In my opinion, your coach is not correct in saying that 18 is too young for 100 mile weeks or running marathons. But he may not be saying this at all. He is probably worried that you'll jump the gun and make a huge jump in mileage and intensity and burn yourself out. This is a valid concern. Also in my opinion, you should start building an aerobic house (base). All running will do this to some degree, but there are smart ways of training and there are stupid ways of "training".

But, really I don't know anything about you. Are you still in highschool? Are you going to run in college? What are your running goals?

How does running a 1:18 halfmarathon show that the marathon is your event?

Every fast 5k guy used to be a 17:30 guy so your point makes no sense as described so far. If you need more speed, then work on your speed instead of increasing your mileage. Is that not the obvious step?

The idea of running 100mpw and still focusing on 5k sounds interesting. That might be the way to go. I just kind of want to run more, and with 100mpw I can get those longer runs in that I like to do. Would it be a bad idea to go to 100mw by January, even if I do it all really easy on soft ground

chiefwahoo_isahoax wrote:

Is it as simple as (when starting to run marathons) put in a ton of easy miles? Like starting in November work from my 50mpw to 80-100mpw all easy to build the aerobic base then tackle some tempos and progression runs?

Yes. It is that simple.

And, do what motivates you. I ran my 1st marathon 28 years ago at 18 y.o. because I was fired up by that challenge. If you put in those miles and keep racing short (5km-10km) you will set yourself up for a good marathon experience and get faster at the short stuff too.

Life is too short to wait on doing things that inspire you.

I am a senior this year. not going to run in college as I said I pretty much want to move to longer distances. I am incredibly dedicated and don't get burned out. I want to run a sub 2:40 marathon someppoint in my life, would like to go down to 2:30 if that is possible

chiefwahoo_isahoax wrote:

I am a senior this year. not going to run in college as I said I pretty much want to move to longer distances. I am incredibly dedicated and don't get burned out. I want to run a sub 2:40 marathon some point in my life, would like to go down to 2:30 if that is possible

If you want to start laying a foundation, I can recommend you two (simple!) approaches to building that aerobic house:

- The first is Hadd base training:

- And Canova's recommendations for building a base:

For more interesting reading, check out Hadd's letsrun posts on ST vs FT runners, and discussion of his Phase IIa and IIb. There isn't a lot of the latter, but there are some good perspectives on why you should focus on the "shorter distances", like the 5k, to get fast at the marathon.

Also, since you'll be running in HS next year, you might consider talking to your coach about your goals. Tell him that you want to start building up miles and work this into your training for the year. You can build up with easy miles and still do the training you need to compete. I wouldn't recommend going behind your coach's back... most likely, he can help you and offer advice; especially if you show him that you're willing to approach your training in an intelligent way.

Yes would it be a bad idea. I've take that big of a jump before and it didn't have good results. You increase the mileage a little bit each year. 70-80 for a year, 90-100 for a year, then 120 mpw marathon training with a private coach

kdkdk wrote:

How does running a 1:18 halfmarathon show that the marathon is your event?

Every fast 5k guy used to be a 17:30 guy so your point makes no sense as described so far. If you need more speed, then work on your speed instead of increasing your mileage. Is that not the obvious step?

Not true about the 17:30 comment. Galen Rupp ran a 16:40 5k in his first ever race freshmen year off of only soccer training and no running training outside of whatever they did at soccer practice.

As for the for the speed comment. It's the idea of a ceiling. If you only have a 17:30 k, your marathon ceiling is around 2:40 plus or minus or a couple minutes. However, the marathon training (for some) will improve their 5k as well, but this is only the case in aerobically weak athletes.

Personally, I'm improving my short distances to raise my ceiling. I want to do marathons, but I know that it is a process and I need to take my time laying the foundation for the success that I want in the marathon to come to fruition. I suggest the OP do the same.

I largely agree with the rest of the posts so far. The one I would stress is the advice of NOT hitting 100 mpw for a GOOD while. Certainly not by January. It should take you a good bit longer than that to go from 50mpw to 100 safely. Hell, try hanging around 80 for a couple months (AFTER you've worked to it from 50 over 2-2.5 months) and move from there.

Also don't do this behind your coach's back if you still plan competing in the spring, because that's a really good recipe for injury if he's working you like his assigned miles are the only ones you do.

agc5k wrote:

[quote]kdkdk wrote:

How does running a 1:18 halfmarathon show that the marathon is your event?

As for the for the speed comment. It's the idea of a ceiling. If you only have a 17:30 k, your marathon ceiling is around 2:40 plus or minus or a couple minutes.

#1) Anybody who knows anything knows that anyone who runs 17:30 5K and 1:18 HM with similar conditioning....especially if they are a novice at the HM...is doing unusually well at the longer distance. I had a 16:13 PR when I ran my first HM in 1:18.

#2) The comment about a 17:30 HS runner having a 2:40 marathon ceiling is complete and utter nonsense. HS training, especially if they were not on a high mileage program, has almost nothing to do with marathon potential. I ran 17:01 in HS. In college I only improved to 16:13/34:18 5K/10K. Yet when I went from running 40-50mpw to consistently doing 90-110mpw, after a few years I had my 10K in the mid-30 range consistently and mid-2:20s marathon. And that "marathon training" dipped my 5K under 15 with no specific training.

The fact is you don't know what you can do until you put in the work to do it.

No sense. wrote:

#1) Anybody who knows anything knows that anyone who runs 17:30 5K and 1:18 HM with similar conditioning....especially if they are a novice at the HM...is doing unusually well at the longer distance.

I wouldn't say "unusually well". If you use a VDOT calculator, 17:30 for 5k gives 58, which predicts a 1:20 half marathon. I would say the 2 minute difference in the HM is "unusual". If the OP dropped their 5k PR to 17 minutes, that would predict (VDOT) a HM time of 1:18.

I respond to you wrote:I would (NOT) say the 2 minute difference in the HM is "unusual".

Sorry, meant to say "not". Fixed.

Training for marathons will make you faster at all distances, even the mile. Lots of us who were your age trained for the marathon in the 70s. The trick is racing them at times that allow for recovering for your cross country and track races.

I used to run two or three a year when I was in college; one in November after cross country season was done, one in mid-February and sometimes Boston. If I'd been a good track runner I might not have run Boston but it never seemed to affect my performances.

I respond to you wrote:

No sense. wrote:

#1) Anybody who knows anything knows that anyone who runs 17:30 5K and 1:18 HM with similar conditioning....especially if they are a novice at the HM...is doing unusually well at the longer distance.

I wouldn't say "unusually well". If you use a VDOT calculator, 17:30 for 5k gives 58, which predicts a 1:20 half marathon. I would say the 2 minute difference in the HM is "unusual". If the OP dropped their 5k PR to 17 minutes, that would predict (VDOT) a HM time of 1:18.

McMillan's calculate give a 16:51 for a 1:18. But all of these estimators assume that one is training equally well for the 5K as the HM. It's highly unlikely a HS 5K runner is doing adequate mileage and longer runs for a HM. Possible, but highly unlikely.

I didn't say a 17:30 HS runner has a ceiling of 2:40. I was saying an individual with a 17:30 PR has that 2:40 ceiling until they improve their 5k.

Also, congrats on the times you ran. That is pretty legit man. Respect.