Treadmill pace versus outside running

I, surprisingly, agree with this comment. I actually find it much easier to run at an equivalent or slightly faster pace then a treadmill. I have always heard that one ought to increase the incline to .5% or 1% grade in order to mimic equivalent outdoor pace but that doesn't work for me. Treadmill paces always seem much more of an effort than running outdoors.

Road Runner BeepBeep wrote:

Can someone explain the difference between running on a treadmill at the same pace that you're running outside, whether it be on the track, roads or the trails?

If I run 10mph on a treadmill, that is 6 minute pace, correct? If I go to a track and run 4 laps in 90, it feels a lot easier than the effort on a treadmill.

Why does it seem like I am going so much faster on a treadmill versus outside?

I understand that your front leg is getting pulled back when it hits the belt, but you also have to get your rear leg up just as fast or you're going off the back end.

So then, can anyone explain this to me? I feel like a roadrunner at that pace on the treadmill, but not outside.

Thank you.

several things:

calibration: you never know if the machine pace/speed is accurate unless you know it's been calibrated

many runners change their form on the treadmill, particularly common to shorten stride length, so the same speed but with a drastic increase in cadence is going to feel much harder

research suggests that the treadmill is easier at speed faster than 7:00 per mile - lack of wind resistance makes a bit of a difference

Weirdly, I feel the same as you both but only when I am running slow. At 7 min miles it feels hard, but as I go faster and I get my speed going (say 5:30/ mile) I feel like the treadmill is slightly easier. Perhaps because I doing fewer foot strikes, and i get a slight bounce....My races indicate this too. Recently I have did a 26:30 min 8km on the treadmill, about a week later on the ground I ran about 25 seconds slower. Maybe because of the wind etc. Anyway, I would love to see the science on this.

It also depends on how "bouncy" the treadmill is. If it is really bouncy even easy paces will feel harder because you are not getting the energy return with each impact. Some treadmills are awful.

Ironically, I have thought about that and I hope that is the case (calibration).

Someone told me that 8.73 mph on a treadmill is exactly 6:52 per mile pace (3 hours for a marathon). I'm not saying that it's not mathematically correct, just seems like I am flying compared to doing it outside.

Honestly, for me, I don't believe I've changed my stride length any significant amount and actually feel like if anything I reach out a tad more...but who knows.

Thanks for all of the responses.

[quote]BAAbaablacksheep wrote:

calibration: you never know if the machine pace/speed is accurate unless you know it's been calibrated

Along the same lines as the OP's original question, has anyone evert seen an equivalency chart which goes past 10%? I know when the Bruce Protocol is used for VO2 max testing the incline will go to 20% and beyond with relatively slow paces. I was just wondering what something like 5 - 6 mph with 16 - 20% incline would be equivalent to on flat land.

There have been recent studies on the difference between treadmill running and over-ground running. As someone else on this thread mentioned treadmills get easier as the speed increases. At faster than 7:09/per mile rate, lack of wind resistance makes the treadmill easier however at slower than this speed treadmill (0% grade) and ground running are equivalent.

http://oeshshoes.com/2014/01/my-scientific-personal-advice-for-treadmill-training/

http://m.runnersworld.com/treadmills/biomechanics-expert-debunks-treadmill-running-myths

Treadmill is a lot easier for me. If I decide to do a longer tempo session (5-7 miles), I am usually right on my PR pace, feeling very easy, even at 1% incline.

Road Runner BeepBeep wrote:

Can someone explain the difference between running on a treadmill at the same pace that you're running outside, whether it be on the track, roads or the trails?

If I run 10mph on a treadmill, that is 6 minute pace, correct? If I go to a track and run 4 laps in 90, it feels a lot easier than the effort on a treadmill.

Why does it seem like I am going so much faster on a treadmill versus outside?

I understand that your front leg is getting pulled back when it hits the belt, but you also have to get your rear leg up just as fast or you're going off the back end.

So then, can anyone explain this to me? I feel like a roadrunner at that pace on the treadmill, but not outside.

Thank you.

Facepalm.

Hasn't this been covered before enough? There is no difference physically between running on the treadmill versus outside except for wind.

The only thing that could make treadmill running easier is the lack of wind resistance. However that is somewhat compensated before by the fact it makes the cooling worse.

treadmill incline question wrote:

Along the same lines as the OP's original question, has anyone evert seen an equivalency chart which goes past 10%? I know when the Bruce Protocol is used for VO2 max testing the incline will go to 20% and beyond with relatively slow paces. I was just wondering what something like 5 - 6 mph with 16 - 20% incline would be equivalent to on flat land.

This isn't a chart but you can plug in the numbers for any incline.

I have found this to be very accurate as I have done all types of workouts up to 15% incline.

One thing to remember is that your breathing will get harder faster as you increase incline so a run on the steeper inclines can be easier on the legs.

Another point to remember is most of the tests used for those bogus charts like hillrunner were done with very short runs. When you run for longer periods of time, you can build up heat that takes a lot of energy to dissipate. If you happen to work out at a fitness center that keeps the temp in the 70s, the effect can be very noticeable. On the other hand, it will keep you acclimated to the heat if you are going to go south and run a race during the winter.

Thanks for all of the respectful responses. Actually, there were several great responses with very informative information. Who knows, maybe mine is out of calibration. It is a very good treadmill that will be 15 years old shortly (Health Rider that goes 12mph with a 60" deck. Never had a problem but I guess it's possible that they lose accuracy over time.

LM, if it's already been covered enough, why are you taking the time to post a response? If I had the answer and had already seen the topic covered, why would I ask? Have a great day sir.

To be clear, when the chart shows you a marathon time result, is that directly based off the pace that you're running on the treadmill?

Example, if you ran 8.73 miles per hour for 10 miles, it should show 3 hours for the marathon, correct?

Never mind, I got it. 1% incline changes it, etc...thanks.

I didn't see this thread yesterday but found an article this morning on Google News addressing this very subject.f

http://www.runnersworld.com/treadmills/biomechanics-expert-debunks-treadmill-running-myths

This researcher found pretty much exactly what a poster above stated. No incline needed on the treadmill until you get to about 7 minute pace.

http://www.runnersworld.com/treadmills/biomechanics-expert-debunks-treadmill-running-myths

I find that the pace feels way easier on the treadmill, even with a 1% grade adjustment. I find that I can routinely get rolling up around marathon pace (6:10-20) on easy days after warming up. On my old legs, the softer surfaces make the pace feel much easier. Treadmills are very forgiving on the legs. Workouts on treadmills at 5k pace or faster are difficult, but not because the pace feels hard. It is difficult to open up your stride that much while having to maintain a pretty perfect pace and not wiggle at all from side to side. I find myself clenching up when trying to run really fast on the treadmill.

Outside I find I run 15-20 seconds slower avg. pace per mile than a treadmill.

When I'm on a treadmill, I have one goal: get off of it.

I typically go faster to end it sooner

Some people unconsciously shorten their stride while running fast on treadmill which would make it seem faster, do to fear of flying off the back. IMO, the best way to compare efforts is to measure HR.

Have you ever heard of ground contact time? Your foot doesn't pop back up right away, so therefore it DOES get pushed back a little. The impact of this is highly dependent on your pace and biomechanics. And then of course I agree with the stride thing.

Facepalm at you wrote:

Have you ever heard of ground contact time? Your foot doesn't pop back up right away, so therefore it DOES get pushed back a little. The impact of this is highly dependent on your pace and biomechanics. And then of course I agree with the stride thing.

Have you ever heard about basic relativity? You are moving relative to standing still on a treadmill, just as you are otherwise moving relative to standing still on the earth. The fact that the treadmill-belt itself is moving is irrelevant, just as is the earth's rotation. Or do you imagine that if you run counter to the earth's rotation, that your foot will get pushed back a little? Imagine a huge treadmill, covering the horizon and going at a steady pace, and you standing still on it. Then you decide to run. Does it matter in which direction? What about if you run inside a plane, or put a treadmill inside a plane facing the other way? Etc.

There are plenty of small variables, but all that matters here is drag, and that only matters at a high pace.