How fast would Chris Chataway have run if he followed the Lydiard method?
How fast would Chris Chataway have run if he followed the Lydiard method?
23.658 fast
12:35
Would have been injured by all the excess mileage and ran a slower time.
Chataway wrote:
How fast would Chris Chataway have run if he followed the Lydiard method?
Reported.
His compatriot, Roger Bannister, used to say pretty much the same kind of thing ("I run off nervous energy"). Some have questioned whether they made such claims about lack of training just to blow the minds of their competitors at the time, and then later (after they retired) they could not bring themselves to come clean about it (that they really did train hard). Who knows? I have great respect for those guys either way. Though it is a little more difficult to believe Chattaway, given he was a 5000 guy who broke the WR set by Kuts (who trained pretty hard).
pv runner wrote:
His compatriot, Roger Bannister, used to say pretty much the same kind of thing ("I run off nervous energy"). Some have questioned whether they made such claims about lack of training just to blow the minds of their competitors at the time, and then later (after they retired) they could not bring themselves to come clean about it (that they really did train hard). Who knows? I have great respect for those guys either way. Though it is a little more difficult to believe Chattaway, given he was a 5000 guy who broke the WR set by Kuts (who trained pretty hard).
Bernard Lagat ran 3:26 and 12:53 off 50 MPW; why should it be hard to believe two guys ran ~3:40 and 13:51 off half that?
Bannister ran upwards of 55mpw at times. It's even in his logs in his book. He ran mostly about 25mpw in the form of 200m and 400m intervals, but he ran more at times too. He did, however, take 5 days completely off before his 3:59.7, which is pretty crazy to me. I still say had that guy lived today and had modern training he'd be a 3:45 miler. Insane talent.
I really don't know a thing about Chattaway other than he paced Roger, ran sub four himself a year or two later, then went on to do well at 5000m. After Bannister broke four, somebody new did it almost every year. Pretty strange it took as long as did.
Bannister didn't have the raw speed to run 3:45.
I think his best 880 was 1:50. He would have been a pretty stout 3K guy though.
SMJO wrote:
Bannister didn't have the raw speed to run 3:45.
You have to factor in that Bannister ran that time on the Iffly Road Track. The record there is held by Craig Mottram at 3:56. The year after Mottram set that record, he ran 3:48 in Oslo as I recall.
I don't know that Bannister could have run 3:45 in Rome or Oslo, but he likely could have run at least 3:50-52 on a modern track off his training at the time, and he might very well have been able to go as fast as the John Walker/Seb Coe range with any improvement in training.
You really think Mottram ran that time on cinders? That track was resurfaced eons ago.
Guppy wrote:
I still say had that guy lived today and had modern training he'd be a 3:45 miler. Insane talent.
There's no such thing as modern training. Bannister ran what he ran and there's no indication that he would have run much faster.
2:52 1320. Nuff said.
You have to be aware that Bannister , Chataway etc. were part of the Oxbridge set who were not satisfied merely with excelling at any particular activity they had to excel while giving an impression of effortless superiority. This led both Bannister and Chataway to play down the amount of hard work that they did. True , it never consumed their entire life as it did others in the 1950s (Kuts , Zatopek , Pirie for example) and the emphasis in training was very much on quality but don,t believe for one moment that they didn't do some hard interval sessions.
Chataway actually had an impressive career ; two Olympic finals at 5000m , a Commonwealth gold at 3 miles , a sub 4 minute mile (when these were still very rare) and a WR at 5000m. Not at all bad for someone who didn't train very much ...!!!???
guys like bannister and chataway were supremely talented.
there are low mileage guys but these guys were ridiculous.
no doubt bannister could have run sub 350 mile.
i think he ran a 2:52 (solo)or better for 3/4 mile.
chataway on the other hand running a 13:50 5k - on what kind of track with what kind of pacing? we are talking a time much better today with drafting and synthetic surface - maybe even sub 13:40.
no doubt they experienced pain beyond belief in top competitions. insane absolutely insane.
SMJO wrote:
You really think Mottram ran that time on cinders? That track was resurfaced eons ago.
Everytime bannister is mentioned coach d use that mottram story and someone else tell him the track was resurfaced, if that is true why do you keep using that mottram time as evidence for what Bannister could've done coach d?
longjack wrote:
guys like bannister and chataway were supremely talented.
there are low mileage guys but these guys were ridiculous.
no doubt bannister could have run sub 350 mile.
i think he ran a 2:52 (solo)or better for 3/4 mile.
chataway on the other hand running a 13:50 5k - on what kind of track with what kind of pacing? we are talking a time much better today with drafting and synthetic surface - maybe even sub 13:40.
no doubt they experienced pain beyond belief in top competitions. insane absolutely insane.
Pain? Hope you're not implying they fast partly because of hard will, Its not as easy as that. You can be mentalt strong all you want, and it might give you the edge above other athletes, but you cant run fast if your legs have no energy left/full of lactate or whatever it is we are calling it these days.
longjack wrote:
guys like bannister and chataway were supremely talented.
...
no doubt bannister could have run sub 350 mile.
...
chataway on the other hand running a 13:50 5k - on what kind of track with what kind of pacing? we are talking a time much better today with drafting and synthetic surface - maybe even sub 13:40.
...
So, to recap: Bannister, could have, no doubt, run 10 seconds faster for the mile.
Chataway, maybe would have run 3 seconds faster per mile.
How does that work?
Translation: "I never lied more than 25 times a week"