How long are your longest runs?

Do a 9 hr run through the streets of NYC in the middle of the night, and then find an out & back marathon, without chip timing, where you can carry a sign. You will make significant improvement.

Haile G. did 50km runs prepping for Flora London. He also got third, behind Khannouchi, who only does 24 mile long runs, but much faster.

Any thoughts from anyone?

I've done a 25-miler in preparation for Austin Motorola in February, and a 17-miler at my goal pace (just under 6:00). Trying to decide whether to do a 30-miler or start easing back on the mileage and focus more on the intensity.

Thanks to anyone.

Did a 30-miler once. Don't know if I would do it again -- would probably focus on the intensity.

I don't particularly enjoy really long runs, but they're certainly a necessary evil for marathon prep. Last marathon, I did a full dry run of the course at about 15 seconds/mile off race pace (very painful and probably unwise yet exhilirating experience) two weeks prior then tapered from there. Two weeks before that (four weeks out) I did just over 22 miles at marathon pace (felt strangely wonderful), with a 17 miler in the intervening weekend. The prior weekly long runs were something like 21, 20, 18, 17, 16, working outward from the race, probably all at about marathon pace. Can't recall exactly, as I'm on the road without my journal, but that's probably as close as shit is to damn.

Pete

Pete,

How fast did you end up running in the marathon?

I really do.

300 meters. I'll enter the 400m here and there, but that's as long as it gets for me. And that's long enough.

dmm13,

just under 2:45. My previous best had been 3:01 (3.5 years prior). I was shooting for about 2:38 this time, and was probably properly conditioned for that, but ran a stupid (started way too fast) race. I'm not sure how much credit for the improvement I'd give to the long runs in the two months prior to the marathon - probably the steady buildup of base mileage over three years was more important. Nevertheless, the long runs no doubt played a role. I hadn't done any real long runs before any of my earlier marathons (previous marathon training included one 16 miler and a handful of 13 milers). This one was a philosophical shift for me, in that I tried to prepare a little more methodically to achieve a goal. In the past, my running has been for the sake of fitness, enjoyment and stress relief. Nearly every run has been a tempo run. I didn't break that cycle this time, but at least worked up the weekly mileage (just over 60) and put in the longer runs.

Well, I did a 30-mile run yesterday. 6 weeks until my marathon. Have also done a 25-miler. How close to the marathon would be a good time to do a 20-miler at marathon pace before starting to taper?

Don't know what you should do, necessarily, but I'll tell you what I did. Hopefully some of those more educated in the science of things will add their two cents (three cents Canadian).

First you need to know I've never followed any specific training methods, or applied any scientific theories to improve my running. I run for me, and for the feeling I get from it. Every run (or damn near) is a tempo run. Since I relocated to a geographically endowed area this summer, these tempo runs are all hilly tempo runs. If I go for a long run, it's a long, hilly, tempo run. Therefore apply my advice with salt.

I'm now training with an older and wiser partner who's working hard to break me of old habits, but I'm an old dog...

The following is what I did in the weeks prior to this fall's marathon. I was shooting for about 2:38'ish (6:02 pace). Note I became injured shortly after the marathon. I now believe my training approach (all hard runs), creeping old age, and complete lack of stretching were all contributing factors. I was probably pretty lucky the injury didn't happen just before the race instead of shortly after. Neverthless, here's what I did, day by day, blow by blow:

beginning six and a half weeks out (where you were a few days ago):

18 miles @ 6:30 pace

5 @ 5:35 (local race)

12 @ 6:13

8.25 @ 6:06

5.1 @ 6:15

day off

20 @ 6:30

8.25 @ 6:21

7 @ 6:23

7.3 @ 6:04

6.1 @ 6:20

10.3 @ 6:20

15.25 @ 6:26

day off

8.6 @ 6:10

21.75 @ 6:19 (four weeks out, very close to eventual marathon race pace, although a bit off target race pace. This run felt fantastic.)

7.3 @ 6:19

5 @ 5:46 (felt like I was sprinting for five miles - this was way fast for a training run for me)

8.25 @ 6:16

7.4 @ 6:07

10.2 @ 6:25

day off

17 @ 6:18

5.25 @ 6:30

9.8 @ 6:18

9.8 @ 6:14

9.8 @ 6:10

day off

26.2 @ 6:33 (two weeks out, dry run of race course, felt like absolute hell afterward, but happy nevertheless to register a marathon - albeight in training - in under 3 hours)

day off

8.25 @ 6:22

8.25 @ 6.22

8.6 @ 6:19

9.8 @ 5:57 (scared myself with this one)

day off

12.1 @ 6:27

day off

9.5 @ 6:01

3.1 @ 7:25 (jog with my son)

8.25 @ 6:02

1.8 @ 7:00 (jog with my son)

6.1 @ 5:50

day off

26.2 @ 6:18 (race day)

I didn't set out to run any run slower or faster than any other - just as fast as I felt my body could *un*comfortably carry me over my intended distance. The variation in training pace probably reflects fatigue/overtraining as much as wind, heat/humidity etc. I also didn't have a specific schedule for daily mileage. I ran whatever felt right that day, with a weekly target of a bit over 60 in the back of my mind. Only exceptions were for planned long runs, when I generally got within +/- 2 miles of what I planned the previous week.

Looking back, maybe I got a bit stupid with my pace during the last week. Probably not a perfect taper. I've never been very good at arguing with myself and convincing myself of the wisdom of what I know to be true when endorphins are whispering something else. However, in spite of my training flaws, I believe the only reason I didn't hit my goal was the pace I took at the start, trying to keep up with the leaders who eventually also faded (although my fade was more pronounced and closer to the end when I was actually !%@#! leading... small field of course).

Anyway, to make this lengthy story shorter and get back to your specific question, I ran about 22 miles at near race pace about four weeks out. I don't think it hurt me, and I think it helped me somewhat (maybe not enough) to get my body familiar with a correct pace for race day.

Good luck and let us know how you make out!

I advise 45-50km at a comfortable pace (6;30 to 7;00 per mile) about one month before your marathon.

In 1990, I ran the first 50km of a very hilly 40mile ultra as a training run for the Cleveland Marathon. The 50km was 2 weeks before the Cleveland Marathon, and my legs were VERY sore after the 50km due to downhills. (Don't try this at home!)

At Cleveland that year I lowered my PR from 2;40 to 2;27 and it felt easy.

Later that year I ran 48km (30 miles) in northern Nevada (4500feet alt) at 5;55 per mile one month before the Columbus marathon, and ran 2;23 (went out way too fast in 15;45/32;00 for 5/10km)

In 2002 I ran 43km in Dali (6,200feet) about 6;50 per mile about 6 weeks before Berlin. I also ran 40km in 5;50 per mile (3;40/km) in Kunming 4 weeks before Berlin. I felt VERY strong at Berlin and ran 16;10 for 35-40km.

Also I ran a week of 3 x 20miles in Zhongdian. (3 runs of 20miles in one week)

I think that you need to get to the point where running 20 miles is like nothing. Jason

21...but then again im a college sophmore who hasnt touched anything longer than 10 in a race before

13-14