Labor lawyers: How is it legal for Competitor Group to use volunteers without paying minimum wage at races?

The local running stores profit greatly when an Event like RNR comes to town. Pat Rizzo currently is employed and sponsored by that same running store that is benefitted by RNR coming to town.

This same event will have all of the locals excited about running for a couple months leading up to the race. This means that interest in running is elevated which is good for everyone. Even if Pat Rizzo does not receive a paycheck from the Competitor Group.

So rather than coming up with a creative way to make a buck off of a huge event that is coming to town, his solution is to boycott the event.

I have a difficult time figuring out how boycotting any event will bring more $$$ to Elite runners?

Be creative NOT bitter.

Dat is wong wrote:

The local running stores profit greatly when an Event like RNR comes to town. Pat Rizzo currently is employed and sponsored by that same running store that is benefitted by RNR coming to town.

This same event will have all of the locals excited about running for a couple months leading up to the race. This means that interest in running is elevated which is good for everyone. Even if Pat Rizzo does not receive a paycheck from the Competitor Group.

So rather than coming up with a creative way to make a buck off of a huge event that is coming to town, his solution is to boycott the event.

I have a difficult time figuring out how boycotting any event will bring more $$$ to Elite runners?

Be creative NOT bitter.

Not once in your rant did you address the question asked.

The question is ridiculous. VOLUNTEER by definition means that both parties recognize that NO PAY is part of the deal. My daughter VOLUNTEERS at the Hospital. The Hospital is a business that makes money. She knows what she is doing and is not covered by any minimum wages laws.

Although as I pointed out Pat Rizzo's sponsor is making money from these Events and Pat Rizzo makes money from his sponsor. So he is NOT a VOLUNTEER, like my daughter as he is being paid indirectly.

Competitor Group is a hedge fund? Huh?

I hope to God that you are not really pre-law.

pre-law wrote:

I saw the QOD where the guys says he worked lots of races for free.

Is there a labor lawyer on here who can tell me how a hedge fund like Competitor Group can use volunteers and wihtout having to pay them minimum wage.

If a major league baseball team tried to not pay it's ushers, people would be outraged that the multimillionaire owner who takes public subsidies is screwing over people. I assume the authorities would get involved as it would be agains the law.

Yet a billion dollar hedge fund can do it and it's fine?

Seriously, how is it legal for any road race to use volunteers if they are being run for proit?

Don't labor laws apply? But lots of road races seem to do it. Would it matter if it's for profit or non-profit?

Lawyers/race directors, please reply.

I don't know the answer but I think the OP raises a legitimate question. Certainly no one so far has answered it. These volunteer positions do not seem to qualify as an internship because you are supposed to learn skills in an internship and these positions hardly seem educational.

WTF does an internship have to do with anything?? If I volunteer at the soup kitchen does that mean I'm an intern? No. All the big races have volunteers, hedge fund owned or not. You can volunteer for anything.

I really hope you are not pre law.

Tons of volunteers work at an average PGA tour event too. What about them? If volunteering at a race for a few hours is wrong, then working 50 hours over 4 days must be a mockery of human Rights. I assume we'll see you picketing at the next tournament?

Yes, this is just what we need. Lawyers getting wealthier by eliminating organizations' rights to use volunteers...

Ever since I found out CGI was a for-profit company several years ago, I've always wondered why anybody would volunteer for them. If they're making a profit, they should be able to pay for workers. I would never volunteer for one of their events. Reading Pat's blog, I can see why an elite would have volunteered, because they really were paid, but why would anyone else?

fwiw wrote:

I don't know the answer but I think the OP raises a legitimate question. Certainly no one so far has answered it. These volunteer positions do not seem to qualify as an internship because you are supposed to learn skills in an internship and these positions hardly seem educational.

lol at the OP changing his name and trying to boos his credibility.

I found this from the US Department of Labor website:

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/docs/volunteers.asp

Volunteers

The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) defines employment very broadly, i.e., "to suffer or permit to work." However, the Supreme Court has made it clear that the FLSA was not intended "to stamp all persons as employees who without any express or implied compensation agreement might work for their own advantage on the premises of another." In administering the FLSA, the Department of Labor follows this judicial guidance in the case of individuals serving as unpaid volunteers in various community services. Individuals who volunteer or donate their services, usually on a part-time basis, for public service, religious or humanitarian objectives, not as employees and without contemplation of pay, are not considered employees of the religious, charitable or similar non-profit organizations that receive their service.

For example, members of civic organizations may help out in a sheltered workshop; men's or women's organizations may send members or students into hospitals or nursing homes to provide certain personal services for the sick or elderly; parents may assist in a school library or cafeteria as a public duty to maintain effective services for their children or they may volunteer to drive a school bus to carry a football team or school band on a trip. Similarly, an individual may volunteer to perform such tasks as driving vehicles or folding bandages for the Red Cross, working with disabled children or disadvantaged youth, helping in youth programs as camp counselors, scoutmasters, den mothers, providing child care assistance for needy working mothers, soliciting contributions or participating in benefit programs for such organizations and volunteering other services needed to carry out their charitable, educational, or religious programs.

Under the FLSA, employees may not volunteer services to for-profit private sector employers. On the other hand, in the vast majority of circumstances, individuals can volunteer services to public sector employers. When Congress amended the FLSA in 1985, it made clear that people are allowed to volunteer their services to public agencies and their community with but one exception - public sector employers may not allow their employees to volunteer, without compensation, additional time to do the same work for which they are employed. There is no prohibition on anyone employed in the private sector from volunteering in any capacity or line of work in the public sector.

For information about independent contractors and trainees (including School-to-Work programs) or to find out whether you are covered by the FLSA, click on the underlined text.

Remember that some employees are exempt from various provisions of the law. To explore the broad categories of these exemptions or to obtain further information about the FLSA, click on the underlined text.

For more information, please contact your local Wage and Hour District Office.

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Sorry, I'm not the OP. I don't know the answer to this question but the website above illustrates that the OP clearly has raised a legitimate issue in the case of volunteering for a for-profit enterprise as opposed to a not-for-profit.

Linsanity wrote:

WTF does an internship have to do with anything?? If I volunteer at the soup kitchen does that mean I'm an intern? No. All the big races have volunteers, hedge fund owned or not. You can volunteer for anything.

I really hope you are not pre law.

A soup kitchen is non-profit - duh!! Working in a hospital is either charity (older person - candy-striper - to fill in time) or internship (learning) or building your resume (could be both). If a RR's stated goal (like Competitor seems to be) is to make money (for profit), then "helpers" should be paid. Races that are strictly for charity (no profit, only expenses), have a legitimate claim to volunteerism. ANYONE can volunteer for an activity (sort of), but if it undermines people's ability to earn a living (i.e. usher at a NFL football game), then (labor laws and unions) that is another matter as it could be deemed to be exploiting people for means of gaining a profit from their services without compensating them for their time/effort.

What is significant, is that this may now open up a "can of worms" if municipalities (if properly audited) are seen to be contributing money towards these events. Mind you given the multitude of corporate bailouts that governments sweep under the rug, is this any different - the rich getting richer, when they are supposed to be paying their way, in part by recompensing their help (all of it). Can you have it both ways?

It's not legal. Since no "volunteer " is going to provide the court with proper evidence, there is no case.

Imagine, Competitor vs. Jane Smith.

This is actually a hot button issue in labor law right now. A lawsuit has been filed against Major League Baseball on behalf of people who volunteered to run an All Star game event:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theemploymentbeat/2013/09/13/dont-volunteer-to-pay-your-volunteers%E2%80%BC/

You could very much make the same allegation against the Competitor Group. However, it would be pretty easy to re-structure these events to make the local municipality or some non-profit organization be the event organizer who hires Competitor to be the turnkey event management company. But, this is a real issue for all events that rely on volunteers. I suspect that either the courts or Congress will find a way to allow for profit companies to use volunteers at events like this. It has been a long standing practice for many sporting events to rely on volunteers (golf, tennis, auto racing, etc.). But it is a real issue.

Hmmm... maybe members of our 'declining middle class' should stop volunteering. Just full-out stop. Unfortunately, their self-loathing liberal upbringing has fooled them into believing this is the 'right' thing to do. Where are these people finding time to volunteer if things are so bad out there?

Rampant liberalism continues to gut the middle class.

I'm glad people see my point. The FLSA stuff is what I was looking for. Looks like a clear violation unless maybe the profit of the hedge fun i mean road race is considered to be a humanitarian objective ;)

To the guy talking about the hospital. Yes, certain activities there are allowed but would you claim they'd be allowed to have volunteer janitors? I imagine not.

In setting up an aid station, you basically are serving as an unpaid janitor.

Therefore hospitals and road races aren't really comparable ina favorable light as you seem to think.

Now in reading that forbes article, it's possible they get away with it as the volunteer falsely thinks they are doing a 'civic duty' instead of helping grow a private equity's profits to 20%.