List of people Armstrong ruined for coming out on his doping

B0vice wrote:

Does anyone know their names/ anyone else who could be added to this list

- Emma O'Reilly is the masseuse

- Frankie and Betsy Andreus were in the hospital when LA admitted taking all kinds of drugs and LA forced Frankie out of the team because he stopped taking drugs. He called Betsy (his wife) old, ugly and fat (she is neither).

- Greg Lemon - made Trek terminate his bike line

Add me to the list. I will NEVER again trust that an athlete I didn't bet on, idolize, or care about wasn't cheating in some way to try and extract money out of my pocket.

This article sums up what happened with the Andreus: http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/news/vindicated-betsy-and-frankie-andreu-talk-armstrong_262536

COuld someone please describe how the lives of these people were "ruined".

Of those mentioned so far:

A massage person who, iirc, was a (paid?) contributor to "LA Confidential"

A bike mechanic...lets be honest where was he headed? CEO of trek? Probably not. He may have been promised XYZ and not gotten it. That does no constitute "ruining" him.

Andreau. What has he/they not gotten in life that they would have gotten? He was an anonymous domestique. And a nice guy, too. One argument I would buy is if he incurred big legal costs that he would not have otherwise.

LeMond? Come on. One multiple tour winner is capable or "ruining" another? They had a feud and both said stupid things and/or talked when they should have said no comment.

I think "financially ruined" is what is meant by ruined.

So you take the massage therapist, who had a solid job with a team, was probably well paid, knew the athletes, etc. She gets dumped and no one else picks her up. Probably had to take job at some gym or something. Now she's been out of the game for 8 years. Hard to come back from that one.

Same scenario with the bike mechanic... Getting a solid job with a team is much better than working in a local bike shop, mind you, so what else is he going to do? Go work at Dicks?

The legal costs are the most important part. Some companies/people took out six figures and more to defend themselves against his libel suits. Imagine how they feel...

worst poster wrote:

COuld someone please describe how the lives of these people were "ruined".

Of those mentioned so far:

A massage person who, iirc, was a (paid?) contributor to "LA Confidential"

A bike mechanic...lets be honest where was he headed? CEO of trek? Probably not. He may have been promised XYZ and not gotten it. That does no constitute "ruining" him.

Andreau. What has he/they not gotten in life that they would have gotten? He was an anonymous domestique. And a nice guy, too. One argument I would buy is if he incurred big legal costs that he would not have otherwise.

LeMond? Come on. One multiple tour winner is capable or "ruining" another? They had a feud and both said stupid things and/or talked when they should have said no comment.

This! I'm sick of all the whining and crying over this. So LA doped. Who doesn't dope at this level of the sport?? All of them dope. So what?? Do we now throw acclaim on the next best doped who didn't get caught??

The problem is money. I don't have a problem with it... But when huge, multi-million dollar sponsorships come in, the objective is to perform. Did the sponsor get harmed? NO!! They got the benefit of their advertising in the years they paid their money. Did the team members get harmed? NO! The were doping anyway...it was the only way to stay up with the sport! The only people who got caught with repercussions, were the ones who tried to break the system. My God!! What is new about that?? This is the way the world works!! You can be Polyanna if you want to, but I'll be a realist. There would be no money in this sport if there wasn' an appetite for the sport worldwide by spectators and casual cyclists. That demand brings big money! So, blame yourselves rather than cry and piss and moan about LA. Talent is talent! If nobody in cycling doped, he would probably still be the best. Whaa whaa whaa!!

Hahahahahahahaha wait...are we now supposed to sowwy for poor, pooor, innocent Frankie? Cause as I see it, he's just as much of a scummy doper, except HE tried to take other people down with him.

Your double standard is hilarious.

Dude. I agree with you, but Lance hit other people with libel lawsuits. He was going after these people, not the other way around.

If you were put under oath and asked if you'd seen a client abuse drugs in your presence (and you had) and told the truth, should you then be forced to pay court costs and legal costs when that client comes after you for lying... When you didn't lie?

Bassons? Told him to leave the tour in front of the pelaton. His own team shunned him. He quit cycling before the end of that tour.

Simeoni, Ballester, Walsh, Kimmage?

This Guy wrote:

Hahahahahahahaha wait...are we now supposed to sowwy for poor, pooor, innocent Frankie? Cause as I see it, he's just as much of a scummy doper, except HE tried to take other people down with him.

Frankie is a drug cheat, no question about that. But he was the one who revealed it, trying to come clean after pressure from his wife.

In this whole LA story, there are very few people I trust. The two I trust unconditionally are Travis Tygart and Betsy Andreu.

Nope, not ruined. Said he was not bitter. Content that Lance got caught.

Idiot. At least post about people who actually got ruined.

I'm basically a Lance Armstrong guy in that I believe he'd have won 7 Tours if he and the rest of the field were clean. He's one of the top endurance athletes in history no matter how you score it.

But it is pretty clear that Lance was pulling strings to make sure that people like Frankie Andreu could not get work.

Here's my guiding philosophy on doping. If it's the thing you need to do to keep your job because that's the norm in the sport, then I don't care all that much. You're breaking the rules so you'll never be as good as those who follow the rules, but I think the rules are flawed. Where you step into bad territory is when you're caught and you don't give it up. When others tell the truth against you but instead of coming clean and standing up like a man like they did, you kick and scream all the way down.

Frankie did what he had to do while he was in it, then he stood up and told the truth. Lance also did what he had to do while he was in it. Now he's out in the middle of the ocean looking for people to pull under so he can stay afloat.

USADA produced a pretty detailed list.

Here's some of the collateral damage:

Emma O'Reilly -- was sued for 1 million Euros in libel case; called an alcoholic and prostitute

Frankie Andreu -- quit early because he didn't want to dope

Betsy Andreu -- public humilation, called a frustrated vindictive shrew

Both Andreu's -- target of Lance for 8 years

Greg Lemond -- Trek line of bikes terminated as Lance forced Trek to chose (I saw one estimate of $30-35 million total value)

Greg Walsh -- Libel cased resulting from "LA confidential". Walsh forbidden to sell book in English (only appears in French)

Mike Anderson -- Bike mechanic with morals was wrongly terminated. E-mail agreement that Lance would help setup a bike shop (like he did for "Motoman"). No way to continue professional life in Austin, TX as reputation was ruined. New Zealand needed bike mechanics and gave him a green card.

Christophe Bassons -- "Mr. Clean" from 1998 Festina scandal, ostracized from peloton for exercising "freedom of speech" in a blog. New team didn't share winnings, forcing Bassons to quit early.

Paul Kimmage? -- arrogant verbal smackdown in 2010, tour of LA interview.

Alberto Contador? -- tension on team, but Alberto was too strong.

Simeoni -- Testified against Ferrarri in Italian court. Chased down by Lance and forced to re-join peloton. Lost a potential stage victory. Threatened with a "zip lip" gesture recorded for the world.

I don't find/recall details, but I remember he tried to use French political influence (lunch with Prime Minister) to retaliate against French lab director.

Emma O'Reilly lost all savings in the slander lawsuit Lance won, the bike mechanic's shop went under and he was bankrupt, I believe, the Andreu's could not get work, LeMond's cycles went under (due to pressures from Lance on Trek, the maker), the list goes on. Lance made certain their lives were hell. Who would want to take threatening phone calls, such as was made by the Oakley rep on Betsy A. That is sick, twisted and despicable. It wasn't just that Lance wanted to win, or that he offered drugs to others, he wanted to destroy peoples livelihoods.

rekrunner wrote:

I don't find/recall details, but I remember he tried to use French political influence (lunch with Prime Minister) to retaliate against French lab director.

Sarkozy is his name. He essentially shut down the funding for anti doping measures, as I recall...

Michael Eskind -

This is gone on long enough. Almost a year. I waited for hours last night for you to show up and apologize for everything you've done. And you continue doing it - I'm Betsy Andreu in your twisted story so that makes me a "frustrated, vindictive shrew"

You have publicly humiliated me and LR is filled with hurtful posts about me from you. It's time to stop. It's time to grow up.

Justin91 wrote:

I'm basically a Lance Armstrong guy in that I believe he'd have won 7 Tours if he and the rest of the field were clean. He's one of the top endurance athletes in history no matter how you score it.

Very debatable. It's apparent that Lance had certain privileges that other dopers didn't have including advance notice of tests and positives covered up. He had the assistance (some say "exclusive services") of one of the top doping doctors in the world. He had cash - doping is expensive. Even IF everyone was doing it, it is not a level playing field.

Despite the rampant use of PEDs, not everyone is dirty in cycling. Hamilton and White have both expressed the need to apologize to all the clean riders and Bassons, among others, left the sport because of their refusal to dope.

In addition, some athletes are better responders than others. Lance, reportedly, has low natural hematocrit numbers, so he was very likely getting a greater benefit than most from his PED use.

Before he amped up his doping program post-cancer, he had shown no ability to be a top tour rider. Yes, he was an excellent 1-day classics rider and won the World Championships in '93, but that is very different than being able to excel at a 3 week tour. He climbing and time trials were mediocre prior to his full-time contract with Ferrari.

Unfortunately, we'll never know the reality of Lance's abilities as there are indications that he was doping as a junior level athlete.