Why Isn't Jim Ryun's 3:33.1 in 1967 the American Collegiate Record?

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Track and Field News set its own criteria for what they call NCAA records as performances set during the collegiate season, so nothing after NCAA's counts.

The NCAA lists college records as anyone in college, so Lagat has the college record.

(note, not the NCAA record)

Then there are meet records, etc.

There really are no official Collegiate or American Collegiate Records.

The NCAA doesn't keep general records for track and field. Track and Field News has a criteria which only includes performances made in the regular collegiate season (so during the scholastic year, up until the outdoor collegiate championships) and excludes NAIA and junior college performances.

But anyone can set up their own standard. You could day that Henry Rono has the 3000m CR at 7:32.1, or that Lee Evans has the 400m record at 43.86A.

It should be at least the out of season still in college mark( A NEW CATEGORY) ACR.. Ryun was a soph in 1967

I have no idea why this is not the ACR at least Out of season

Wheating ran 3:30.90 in July of 2010, his last season as a Duck runner. But clearly after the NCAA season was over and school out, I would think.

In season, would now be Merber I think

Some will say it has been made too confusing, I think it could be fairly simple:

CR:To have this you have to still BE IN College or coming back

ACR: same thing, only you have to be American, ohh, what a hard thing to figure out!!

Should not matter if IN or OUT of season, but you have to still be college eligible for it to count, otherwise , guess what? You weren't IN college or eligible for college running when it was set, what a novel concept.

Someone better answer this and fast:

what is:

American college record (record set during NCAA season with only college runners)-

American college record (record set during NCAA season but with whoever in the race) -

American college record (person has not graduated from College yet and may have raced in europe or someother race during the summer) -

NCAA record (record set during NCAA season with only college runners) -

NCAA record (record set during NCAA season but there may have been a pro in the race) -

NCAA record (record set during NCAA season or summer) -

How was that for ya? This is as screwed up a record thing as I have ever seen.

Screw T and F News anyway, half their shit is out of date or incorrect.

What about someone like Centro?

Ran 3:34 after his 4th season but still had eligibility for a 5th year.

Then later, during the 5th year, decides to forego the 5th year of eligibility.

Would that be record eligible?

Because there is no such category as the American Collegiat Record.

Exactly, the brojos invented the category of american college record.

The rules clearly state that all males wishing to be considered for record ratification must be: 1) over 6' in height, and 2) please see #1. Ryun nails it. Give the man his record.

The Brojos did not invent this category. The "American collegiate record" claim appears in articles I've seen about this.

Apparently the "within the collegiate season" criterion is the one Merber's performance meets even though Ryun, and quite a few other guys, were still enrolled college students when they ran their times.

Weldon.

There is no such thing as a Collegiate record so how could there be such a thing as American Collegiate record?

Track and Field News recognizes only performances during the Collegiate Season as "Collegiate Record",

http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/index.php/tafn-lists?list_id=11&sex_id=M&yyear=2008

but has a glaring inconsistency since they recognize high school performances that are in or out of season as "High School Record"

http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/index.php/tafn-lists?list_id=34&sex_id=M&yyear=2008

**Notice how they stealth-fully swept the month and day under the carpet on the high school lists? Nice try.

The NCAA recognizes anything during in and out of season as "College Best"

http://www.ncaa.com/content/di-tf-championships-men-final-results

Most colleges recognize any performance in or out of season as "School Records".

Most high school recognize performances both in and out of season as "School Records."

Logically speaking, it should be common sense that Letsrun, the most read and important running website in the world, should follow the NCAA's lead and call any performance in or out of season a "Collegiate Record."

Let Track and Field News, the so-called "Mein Kampf of the Sport" wallow in their own power trip.

Agree with Malmo, Letsrun should start their own list, have it has another tab on the home page.

That 1:41.77 from Cruz is going to be hard to beat!

Only thing that I would exclude is the records set by athletes over 25 (or whatever the NCAa rules now are).

I think most of us are in agreement Ryun should count.

What do we do about Centrowitz? Since he could have come back and had not gone pro, I'm leaning towards counting it.

wejo wrote:

What do we do about Centrowitz? Since he could have come back and had not gone pro, I'm leaning towards counting it.

That one is kind of a gray area. I personally wouldn't since it was after his last season as a collegiate runner. It would be a little like wanting to accept Wheating's 3:30.90 as the record in 2010 since it was after his last eligible season.

wejo wrote:christmas.

I think most of us are in agreement Ryun should count.

What do we do about Centrowitz? Since he could have come back and had not gone pro, I'm leaning towards counting it.

As the saying goes "if ifs and buts were fudge and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas"

Proposal:

Collegiate records = 4 years from fall enrollment, minus redshirt seasons, plus 5th year season. You don't get a 5th Summer. You don't get credit for going pro.

wejo wrote:

I think most of us are in agreement Ryun should count.

What do we do about Centrowitz? Since he could have come back and had not gone pro, I'm leaning towards counting it.

NO, Centro quit collegiate running on his own volition. No college records for runners who are professionals.

If you look closely at TFN's record page here:

http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/index.php/special-articles/276

Near the top is 1500 record as:

3:35.30 Sydney Maree

American 3:35.84 Brian Hyde and Joe Falcon

Then near the bottom after it says: Marks Made Outside Regular Collegiate Season

The 1500 record is:

3:33.07 Kip Cheruiyot

American 3:33.1 Jim Ryun

So Ryun has credit for the American college record made outside of the regular collegiate season.

i think a record for the college records should have to occur in a college competition during the season of college athletics….

counting stuff that happens on national teams or after the college season is over, is like counting how many points a guy scored in the olympic basketball tournament, and saying its a new nba mark if they score 100 in a game….

wejo wrote:

What do we do about Centrowitz? Since he could have come back and had not gone pro, I'm leaning towards counting it.

T&FN may be "The Bible of The Sport," but (digital) times seem to have passed them by. We need a more recent holy book to determine, and keep track of, these records!

I nominate LRC as "al-Qur'an of The Sport."