CC Varsity line up change

This is why running is SOOO much better than any other sport.

Bottom line is.... Fastest 7 guys make varsity. That's it... You would be cheating the rest of your team if you don't make change.

It sounds like you have a bunch of Football and Basketball parents.

You have strong data (Times from races and practices) that shows who your top 7 are. They can't argue with that.

To ease the pain, you can make the seniors or whatever that are on the bubble alternates. Let them be a part of the varsity, warm-up with them at meets where there is no JV race and tell them that anything can happen to the top 7 so we need to have 8 or 9 guys ready to go.

I always spelled out to my runners that the top-7 times from a previous week would run in the next varsity race during the regular season. The during championship weeks I would pick who I felt was the top-7 a few days before each meet. I never had any complaints as I was clear up front about how I would determine who would run when.

Ultimately you are the coach and have the final say. Don't jeopardize your teams chances because some parents want you to make an exception for their child. Remind them that you have the best interest of the whole team as your #1 priority before any individual runner.

I've found myself in this position often and the way that I explain it is that there are 6 other kids who have also worked very hard and they deserve to have the runner with them that will give the team the best opportunity to succeed...running one kid just because he is a senior may cost another senior the opportunity to advance. Never easy to deal with ...good luck

We always announced the 7 who would run in the weekend meet on the tuesday before. We'd go through the motions of posting a "new" roster even if it hadn't changed since the previous meet. Going through this little formality makes it clear to the athletes that our varsity roster is a week by week decision and the lineup could change any time.

good policy.

i got hit by a car and then ran a meet that weekend. my time was slowed considerably from previous races, but i still would have been #7 on the team if it hadn't been for coach allowing a runner who had been unable to attend, due to a choir concert, keep his varsity spot without racing.

it frustrated me to no end.

I have no idea what that last post was saying, but I would like to reference my senior year of XC in high school. I talked my coach into taking the top 7 times from our last regular season meet to Districts because I could see the younger guys improving in leaps and bounds and the bottom end of our varsity was stagnant. Anyway, two freshmen and a sophomore cracked the spots and kicked out three of our regular varsity runners. Yeah, all three of the new guys choked under pressure and since one obviously had to be our fifth scorer, we choked as a team. Ouch, my bad.

I'm just pointing out that you have to be sure the replacements will make a difference and are mentally capable of performing in higher pressure races. Otherwise, who cares how hard your 8th and 9th runners are training...I should hope every runner on your team does the same routine.

First meeting of the year, I told the guys....top 7 runners will go to Regionals and the same 7 (barring injury, etc) will go to State. Parents were all there. I told them that XC was a true sport and politics are not a part of the system.

However, we only use race place...not time. The kids have to compete in the same race at the same time to bump kids out. It's not fair for someone to run a JV race where race tactics are totally different and then compare the finsih time against a kid that ran the Varisty race. Everyone in my area thinks TIMES are the be all end all to XC. I don't agree at ALL. Place is everything. I don't even care if they time the darn thing.

Why? Because I have yet to find a cross country course that is actually measured (even my own). They are all close but not accurate. Really, does it matter if they are accurate? Comparing times will lead you to comparing course A with with weather contions A and course conditions A to course B, etc. and I guarantee those two things are not the same.

The post that mentioned Fr snd So having mental prep problems can absolutely occur. They need to run with the big dogs in the season to see how the race is different.

Missing the end of my post....

My solution? Have a time trial for the positions. Same day, 5K, same course, everyone knows what is at stake, etc.

In theory...just going on time is a good policy....but in reality...may not work. JV is completely different that Varsity......and place should have some weight as well. Also....Varsity/older runners are more mature and may be able to handle the pressure of a big race better than your JV guys. Time and place should carry a lot of the weight..but you do need to factor in the person as well.....who will get it done in the big race for you? Who will step up? Those are the runners that you want in your big races.

And frankly....parents should NOT be interfering...especially the parents of seniors. If the runners are upset...they should be talking to the coach. It is a learning experience for the athlete to go and talk to a coach.....that is something that you can take away from football..if YOU have an issue...YOU go talk to your coach. And you don't whine...you say "Coach...what can I do to get back in the top seven?" and listen to the answer.

I agree very much with jt47. We do the same thing - 7 best performances during regular season meets run varsity in the next meet (barring injury/illness). This gives everyone a clear chance to earn their chance and prove themselves (plus, regular season meets do not matter that much anyway.) Come Conf./Dist./State the kids know that we will select the 7 runners based on a combination of consistency, recent performances, who is getting faster/who is getting slower, experience, etc.

We base a lot of our final decisions on who has performed best in the last 3 races. Also, if a kid has demonstrated they can SCORE, vs. just being a consistent #7, that is important.

All things being relatively equal, I would not bump a Senior out of a #6 or #7 spot just to replace them with someone who is 5-10 seconds faster, on one or two occassions. However, if kids have clearly shown that they are significantly better, and running #4/5 - well, that would be completely unfair to not run them varsity.

The most important thing in the future is to lay this out in advance.

we always did it on merit, since we ran our dual meets as one big race typically (rarely JV/Varsity) so it was easy..we didn't count invitationals

there was 7 team jackets...fastest 7 from the weekday meet, wore them til the next one...great motivation

My high school coach would always put a JV senior in for the district meet (which is varsity only and the state qualifier) no matter how much he sucked.

If one of the JV guys has a chance to score in the top 5, he should run no matter what. Some varsity guys are a consistent 6,7 but never better, while you have other guys who either run amazing or run awful. If the 6,7 guys really don't score consistently, throw the JV guy, who would have finished 4th in there, for sure.

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I like the idea of a weekly line up posting ritual so the team gets used to the idea and no one takes their position for granted.

We had this situation, and our coach had a run-off in the middle of the week. The upstart underclassmen had to race the lagging seniors, and whoever finished best got to go to states. This solves several problems:

1. You don't have to guess how the varsity or JV race tactics factored in the race.

2. Whoever takes the spots to make the team obviously has the motivation.

3. Whoever takes the spots can handle the pressure.

My team probably would have lost out on a state championship if our coach had put experienced but slow and lagging seniors ahead of hungry freshmen. Go with the best times if at all possible, and to hell with anybody, parent or runner, who feels entitled to a spot on varsity due to seniority.

Parents getting involved in HS cross country? If I'm the kid I'd tell my parents to stay out of it.

The coach should choose the team based on performance. While it can't strictly be time, if a JV runner runs 30secs faster than one or more Varsity runner, I think the coach is obligated to the JV runner to make a change unless there are some extenuating circumstances. If the JV runner runs a time which is a few seconds faster than the Varsity runner I can see leaving the status quo unless it's consistent week to week.

I run the fastest 7 from the previous meet for every meet except the state qualifier. In that meet I look at all results, but more importantly the last couple of races to see if someone is fading, or coming on. Grade level means nothing. I currently have 3 kids on each team fighting for one spot.

We just had our state qualifying meet, and we had three underclassmen running for the 7th spot. All had been improving so it was pretty easy, one guy got the spot by about 10 sec. Thats all there is to it.

So you are considering holding out your 4 and 5 runners at the state meet?

Great, they worked hard. Do the two seniors a favor and teach them some tough love. Explain to them that you are doing what is in the best interest of the team.

How do you feel if you are the underclassmen? They probably worked hard too. This might be their only opportunity to run in the state meet. Hell, they might not come out next year if you don't run them.

I coach and unfortunately I don't have the luxury of athletes having to compete for varsity spots (right now).

Do not let parent politicking ruin your integrity as a coach.