CBA streak impressive ....... this years team NOT

Anyone who has run xc knows that there are several factors that can potentially slow down the times. XC is about who you beat and not the times you run.

Who cares what their team average was? Just congratulate the team on a great early season race. I'm sure we can expect fast times from this team in different conditions or on a different course.

4th place team sat people out and it's a really tough course explaining the times. 16:00 is considered a top 50 US runner most years at this course

Of course I know there are several factors - that's exactly why I'm posting here LOOKING FOR MORE INFO. I'm not hating on the team or anything - just putting in my two cents. I actually said in my post that it's a really really good performance for underclassmen. Unfortunatly when you don't witness or know a witness the actual race, you only have times to go on.

One more thing ....... you didn't answer any of my questions or shed any light on anything - you just assume they'll run faster ..... nice f'ing post dummy.

Thank you section2harrier - good post.

I think that the excitement about last weekends win and the dual meet win last week was the surprise of how well these underclassmen did because there was a lot of rumbling that the streak was in jeopardy.

CBA rarely has to run its top 7 to win dual meets and 95% of the time runs its JV team. This is an aspect that makes being on this team very special because runners 1-7 are responsible for the invitationals and runners 8-14 are responsible for the Streak...both very important things. In meets dual meets like this week when it is thought that there will be a big challenge, the big boys run.

Also, I believe that Shen (the national #4 team that was beaten) didn't run their top 2 so that is why these times don't seem so impressive for such an upset, so it really wasn't as much of an upset as it seems. CBA is historically a national top 10 team, but hasn't been for 3 or 4 years now so I just think the author is excited about how they are back in the mix earlier than expected.

Hall of Mirrors wrote:

http://www.dyestat.com/?pg=reg1-2008-XC-NJ-CBA-dual-meet-streak-&PHPSESSID=d68712e658ce659e04c1176daf407508

What puzzles me is they beat the #4 ranked team in the nation??? Seriously, 6 guys at 16:54 isn't amazing ----- it's really really good, especially for underclassmen, but there should be teams that could demolish these guys. In highschool, our 5th guy ran 16:46 on a tough course and we didn't even win the state meet (runner up).

Again, I'm very ignorent with the team - here are some discussion points/questions the might help me and others out.

Was the course really tough that they just ran on?

What have the previous teams looked like? where is their 1st, 5th, 7th guy usually?

What kind of teams do they dual against regularly?

What did these sophomores run last year as freshmen?

I think I can answer a few of your questions (I ran there about 15 years ago):

1. They beat the suppossed #4 team (Shenendahowa) in the nation last weekend at Bowdoin Pk, the same course as the NY State XC meet. Shen was missing two of it's top guys (2 of the top 3, from what the rumors are). The other team from NJ (Morris Hills) they beat, suppossedly the #2 Jersey team didn't run well at all. The course record at Bowdoin is ~15:40 by Charlie Millioen, famous for the 2000 FL results:

1 Ritzenhein, Dathan Rockford 14:35

2 Webb, Alan South Lakes Reston 14:55

3 Hall, Ryan Big Bear Lake 14:59

4 Millioen, Charles St. Anthony's 15:05

CBA 5 men averaged ~17:00, on that course. Course record 5 man avg ~16:20 by Fayetteville Manlius.

2. The course they ran on this week is fairly tough, but their guys ran as a pack and didn't run all out. The winner of the race is a 4:12 miler (Robby Andrews) who didn't run all out either. In any case, the top 6 crossed the line as a pack. At last weeks meet they had a 30 second spread from 1-5.

3. Previous teams at CBA have ranged from good to extremely good. They've won 15 NJ state titles (next highest is about 5 or so.). The 1987 XC team was ranked #1 in the Nation by the Harrier (led by a 2 time Kinney qualifier, #2 guy was a 4:09 miler.) Before the NTN era they were consistently ranked in the top 20 in the country, with every 3-4 years a top 10 ranking.

The teams are usually well balanced teams with no real studs, but lots of numbers. Typical team will be led by a 9:30 2 miler/4:25 miler; but will have another 6 guys under/at 10:00/4:35.

4. The schedule is set by the League - the Shore Conference. They run 6-7 dual meets a year; they don't add anyone. In the early days of the streak, they'd run more duals against teams from around the state who were rivals (traditionally other Catholic schools). The Shore Conference has 45 schools broken into 6 divisions based on size, and geography (2 counties). CBA is in the largest school category, in one of the counties. CBA has won the overall conference championship title every year but one since joining the conference back in the early 80s.

5. The top guys ran last year:

Mike Mazzacaro (FR) 4:36.1 1600m, 9:45.8 3200m

Dennis Smith (JR) 4:34.7 1600m, 9:47.9 3200m

Mark Lee (SO) 4:34.0 1600m, 9:57.2 3200m

Brendan Swan (JR) 4:41.6 1600m, 9:57.9 3200m

Dan Mykityshyn (FR) 4:35.1 1600m, 9:58.2 3200m

Christian LaMorte (JR) 4:34.1 1600m, 10:04.x 3200m

Dan Bailey (SO) 4:39.x 1600m, 10:11.x 3200m

Colin Johnson (SO) 4:40.x 1600m, 10:13.x 3200m

I don't think they'll be the top team in NJ this year

They've had some very, very good teams... I only ran against them once in high school (back in 2000) but I am pretty sure they put 5 guys in the top 15 in the championship race at the Brown Invitational. They were surrounding me, communicating with hand signals during the race. I found it pretty intimidating at the time.

(I can't find the results anywhere, but take my word for it, they have had some very good teams.)

Ticktock wrote:

I don't think they'll be the top team in NJ this year

I don't think they will be either.

Don Bosco returns 6 of 7 from a team that was ~10th at NTN last year, including the top 2 guys who are 9:15 2 milers.

Another team from NJ has two sophs who ran 9:10 and 9:15 3200 last year, plus a bunch of other good guys.

CBA maybe 3rd or 4th.

Ticktock, you don't stop....

Cool - lots of great info. Thanks everybody!

Great results to see. Nice strong pack.

Anyone who knows CBA knows that they're only going to get stronger from here until the Meet of Champions (combined state championships).

what you could have done is checked past results before you talk about your HS team runnerup finish. As if different xc course times are meaningful comparisons....

last year Brookline ran 16:56 5 man avg at the SAME meet and I believe was top 10 in the nation at NTN. So, as for teams demolishing them I'm not so sure bout that. MH and Shen are quality teams and CBA will get a chance throughout the season to prove if they belong with the elite teams. As of now they look like a top 25 team. The NE, especially Jersey this year, is packed. To go to NXN from the NE you have to be very good. You could be a top 15 team nationally and stay home.

Sam Weatherss wrote:

what you could have done is checked past results before you talk about your HS team runnerup finish. As if different xc course times are meaningful comparisons....

last year Brookline ran 16:56 5 man avg at the SAME meet and I believe was top 10 in the nation at NTN. So, as for teams demolishing them I'm not so sure bout that. MH and Shen are quality teams and CBA will get a chance throughout the season to prove if they belong with the elite teams. As of now they look like a top 25 team. The NE, especially Jersey this year, is packed. To go to NXN from the NE you have to be very good. You could be a top 15 team nationally and stay home.

brookline ran that 16:56 early season same meet w/partial team.

Real brookline time ran 16:32/ave @ NXN regional

Can cba improve that much to belong with big boys?

(answer=no)

I do not get it. For a team to improve 24 secs over the course of two months is about average. Why would that be a great improvement? It was also very hot and humid at this meet last year so Brookline would have run even faster on a better day. Now you say Brookline was missing a couple of guys as well so they probably didn't improve all that much. I would be disappointed if my team didn't improve at least that from mid Sept to late Nov. Not too impressed with Brookline if those numbers are correct. I've competed against CBA for a while and would be absolutely shocked if they did not improve 25 secs per runner over that period of time. especially since you are going to see a soph improve more than a senior.

do not get it wrote:

I do not get it. For a team to improve 24 secs over the course of two months is about average. Why would that be a great improvement? It was also very hot and humid at this meet last year so Brookline would have run even faster on a better day. Now you say Brookline was missing a couple of guys as well so they probably didn't improve all that much. I would be disappointed if my team didn't improve at least that from mid Sept to late Nov. Not too impressed with Brookline if those numbers are correct. I've competed against CBA for a while and would be absolutely shocked if they did not improve 25 secs per runner over that period of time. especially since you are going to see a soph improve more than a senior.

shocked if CBA doesnt run 25 sec/man better...ok, lets remember to bump the thread after nxn regional.

tis a bit easier to bump 17:56 to 17:32 than 16:56 to 16:32.

i think you will be disapointed.

btw ; fm/toga ran 16:38 & 16:42 and proceeded to finish 3/1 in NTN.

you will be shocked if CBA doesnt do 16:38...uhoh.

you should be impressed by brookline as they were a very very good team last year. Survived a bad day by #5 and still finished 7@ntn.

Defeated a very solid and preseason #1 danbury team at regionals.

great team, cba will not approach that level this year.

Am I missing something? Why is a team from New Jersey running a dual meet in New York?

Where I went to high school you only had dual meets against teams in your own conference, I thought it was like that everywhere?

jack343 wrote:

Am I missing something? Why is a team from New Jersey running a dual meet in New York?

Where I went to high school you only had dual meets against teams in your own conference, I thought it was like that everywhere?

You are missing something.

Posters keep making reference to CBA's invitational win at the Bowdoin Classic in upstate NY last weekend.

They won dual meets on Tuesday against Colts Neck and Manalapan, some local teams from their own county.

Former Colt wrote:

CBA 5 men averaged ~17:00, on that course. Course record 5 man avg ~16:20 by Fayetteville Manlius.

FM's record 5 man team average for Bowdoin is 16:15; interestingly CBA's 1987 team led by John Coyle holds the 5 man all-time average at Sunken Meadow (16:20), site of this year's NY Public School State Meet

Your 5th man ran 16:46? My Jr year we had 9 guys under 17 minutes for 5k and we never finished better than 7th in Monmouth County and 9th in the Shore conference. But that was the late 70's...