Tempo run pace based on recent 5K time

sure. but tempos runs should be based on feel.

Sounds perfect!

And it also depends on the time you're running at tempo effort for. If it's mile cruise intervals w/ 60s rest, or 15 (and maybe as long as 20 minutes) continuous tempo effort, you should be okay with around that pace (although, like the previous poster said, it should be done by effort); but if you're doing a longer tempo run (say, 45 minutes), as much as 60-75s/mile slower than 5k race pace (or slower, depending on conditions, rest, terrain, footwear, etc) is still a worthwhile effort.

i like

http://runworks.com/calculator.html

i wouldn't be a slave to the paces it tells you, but i think it gives good ballpark numbers.

I believe in pushing the tempo runs, particularly when you are still far, far away from your physical peak. since you can likely drop 2+ minutes in the 5k as you get in better shape, you should be pushing the 5k tempo at a pace relatively close to that last race. Not long after a 25+ 4M xc race at VCP, I did a 4M team tempo in Central Park slightly faster. At worst 15 seconds per mile above race pace.

This is all great info, thank you. It will be cooling off here where I live this week. I was planning on doing a 4 mile tempo run on Thurs. I'd like to hit around 25:30-25:45 for that. But I'll go by feel as I know it should be comfortably hard.

because you're not in a race, you're going to go slower, particularly if you're running these solo. So, to hit 15 seconds slower per mile, you would probably be perceiving effort as nearly the same as the race, except that you want a relaxed first mile, push hard the next three miles, but don't kick at the end. you don't need the torn muscle fibers in a workout.

I believe this is a bad idea. Yeah you can do 4 miles at 10k pace but that is getting pretty close to a race level effort. I think your better off increasing volume instead of intensity. Now I do like 10k intervals (1-2miles) a lot. I think getting in 6 miles of 10k work instead of 4 more than makes up for the 5 min of rest. Your mileage may vary.

jonesy. wrote:

I believe in pushing the tempo runs, particularly when you are still far, far away from your physical peak. since you can likely drop 2+ minutes in the 5k as you get in better shape, you should be pushing the 5k tempo at a pace relatively close to that last race. Not long after a 25+ 4M xc race at VCP, I did a 4M team tempo in Central Park slightly faster. At worst 15 seconds per mile above race pace.

jonesy. wrote:

I believe in pushing the tempo runs, particularly when you are still far, far away from your physical peak. since you can likely drop 2+ minutes in the 5k as you get in better shape, you should be pushing the 5k tempo at a pace relatively close to that last race. Not long after a 25+ 4M xc race at VCP, I did a 4M team tempo in Central Park slightly faster. At worst 15 seconds per mile above race pace.

this is terrible advice for someone trying to do a tempo run.

So as long as I'm not killing myself with the times on the tempo runs I'm ok right?

NO! It sounds all WRONG!!!

If your race time was 18:42 your pace for workouts should be THE EXACT SAME AS YOUR RACE PACE. You want to run FASTER next time, yes? Not slower or the same. Am I right here??? Train to get smoother at your race pace. When you get into another race your 18:42 will be your BASE rather than your MAX.

GERRY wrote:

NO! It sounds all WRONG!!!

If your race time was 18:42 your pace for workouts should be THE EXACT SAME AS YOUR RACE PACE. You want to run FASTER next time, yes? Not slower or the same. Am I right here??? Train to get smoother at your race pace. When you get into another race your 18:42 will be your BASE rather than your MAX.

To the OP: you know not to listen to this guy, right? It sounds like you're on the right path. If you ever have any doubts about what you're doing, remember this slogan (a Jack Daniels* favorite): train smarter, not harder.

*the coach, not the drink

the fact is that I have improved constantly from pushing my tempo runs the past few years, ignoring people's advice to cool it on the tempos, and I'm old. the key is to know when to take a very easy recovery run the day after.

it's great that pushing the pace works for you. Just don't call it a tempo run.

If the OP really wants to get fit he should be doing 10mi or 60min worth of threshold worth weekly. Not sure where an 18:42 runner falls, but I'd have a 16minute runner run at about 6min pace (at least that's where I'd expect them to be). Roughly half-marathon to marathon pace running with a lot of moderate to relaxed mileage + 5k specific work will help drop that time towards your limits.

coach, running the tempo at 15 seconds slower per mile is textbook tempo run. that's exactly what I advised him to do. a 16 5k runner should not be running 6 minute pace for a 4M tempo. I am a 16 5k runner and I just ran 8 tempo at 5:45 pace (2nd half a minute faster than first half). But it's not only me. My teammates, all 34-36 10k guys, run their hilly 4 mile tempos at 5:45-5:55/mile and do 5M tempos usually in 29-29:30.

15sec slower than 10k pace. The orginal comment was suggesting 15 seconds slower than 5k pace. So you are running 4 miles at 10k pace. 10k pace is a good pace for developing the aerobic system. It is faster than LT, pretty close to race pace, pretty high % of vo2 max, and you can run it for a good chunk of time (10-12 mins). But doing 20-30 mins of it straight out might be pushing it for a lot of people.That being said I know a lot of guys in high school that raced themselves into pretty decent shape by running 1-2 5ks a week for 8 weeks. I think there are better ways to train (doing 1 fast workout 3-10k paced intervals) and whatever tempo runs mileage (ideally about 50-60 min a week total) you can.

jonesy. wrote:

coach, running the tempo at 15 seconds slower per mile is textbook tempo run. that's exactly what I advised him to do. a 16 5k runner should not be running 6 minute pace for a 4M tempo. I am a 16 5k runner and I just ran 8 tempo at 5:45 pace (2nd half a minute faster than first half). But it's not only me. My teammates, all 34-36 10k guys, run their hilly 4 mile tempos at 5:45-5:55/mile and do 5M tempos usually in 29-29:30.

eyestone has tempo pace as 1 hr pace. for me, half marathon pace is 5:46 (1 hr pace would be a bit faster). 10k pace is 5:33. 5k pace is 5:10. tempo pace is usually 5:45 or 35 seconds slower than 5k pace and 12 seconds slower than 10k pace. granted that the 10k time is relatively weak still, it's not reasonable to ask a 16 5k runner to run easy 6's for tempo, or 50 seconds slower per mile than 5k race pace.

That is way different advice than

Running 5:45 is sane. Running 5:25 and trying to go faster is not. That is the tough part of tempo runs. All of these paces are pretty close together once you get in shape (about 45s between 5k and marathon) so it is easy to start straining instead of training.