Marathon experts - long run advice needed

What type of mileage have you been consistently running?

I'm no expert either, but I have run 8 or 9 marathons with a 2:32, 2:33, 2:34, and 2:38 to my credit.

It all depends on your training history. If you've done many 20 milers in the past (ie: can you confidently go out and run a 20 miler tommorrow and not feel like crap for a week?) then I say go with option A. Running that long, 20 mile, at near marathon race effort is hard. If you go for option A I'd say stick with the pace until you really have to dig down (might be around 15-18 miles) then cruise in. My best marathon was run with a 30k 3-4 weeks beforehand in which I ran "on pace" for 15 miles then cruised in the last 3. Now, if you've never done the 10/10 plan before that can also be fun because you are trying to run at marathon pace after already being tired. This was a favorite of Frank Shorter....and might actually be more difficult than the 20 at close to pace.

Either way make sure you take the day off after this long run. There is more you can do int he last 3 weeks before a marathon to hurt your chances than help them.

Alan

Option A. It will be alot more enjoyable and will be just as good prep. You can always pick up the pace the last 5 or so if you feel good.

You really think one fcuking run would make any difference? Just go with whatever option seems most appealing to you.

I'll just offer one piece of advice: whichever option you take, do NOT run another 18-20 miler with ANY sustained pace work between that run (3 weeks out) and your goal race. No matter how good you're feeling, don't do it.

I trained for a marathon in early December 2006. (I'd run a test marathon at 3:39 in early September.)

My long runs from mid-September onward look like this

18 @ 8:50

18 @ 8:50

19 @ 9:35

14 (incl. 10 mile race @ 7:20s)

20 @ 8:44

16 (w/10@ 7:36)

22 @8:50

17 (incl. half-marathon PF @ 6:58 pace)

21 (8 easy, 12 mile fast-finish tempo: 10@ 7:30, 7:00, 6:30)

That 21-miler was three weeks out. Following on the heels of a half-marathon PR, it was just too damn much. I felt strong! And I peaked too early.

The following week, 16 (incl. 10@ 8:50 and 5 @7:43)

No LR the Sunday before the race.

So I think you're fine with either A or B, although you should be prepared to pull the ripcord at 15 if you start out with the 7:30 group and are hitting that pace right away. Personally, I'd do B.

The key thing is, don't precede or follow that 20 miler (i.e., in week 4 or 2) with anything other than a moderately paced, moderately shorter (15-16 mile) long run. Give your body a chance to absorb the training.

I felt flat in the race

I'll just offer one piece of advice: whichever option you take, do NOT run another 18-20 miler with ANY sustained pace work between that run (3 weeks out) and your goal race. No matter how good you're feeling, don't do it.

I trained for a marathon in early December 2006. (I'd run a test marathon at 3:39 in early September.)

My long runs from mid-September onward look like this

18 @ 8:50

18 @ 8:50

19 @ 9:35

14 (incl. 10 mile race @ 7:20s)

20 @ 8:44

16 (w/10@ 7:36)

22 @8:50

17 (incl. half-marathon PF @ 6:58 pace)

21 (8 easy, 12 mile fast-finish tempo: 10@ 7:30, 7:00, 6:30)

That 21-miler was three weeks out. Following on the heels of a half-marathon PR, it was just too damn much. I felt strong! And I peaked too early.

The following week, 16 (incl. 10@ 8:50 and 5 @7:43)

No LR the Sunday before the race.

I ran 3:30:59 (BQ by one second) but felt flat. I'd hoped to run somewhat faster, given my HM time. I blew my goal race by training too long & hard the week after a race.

So I think you're fine with either A or B, although you should be prepared to pull the ripcord at 15 if you start out with the 7:30 group and are hitting that pace right away. Personally, I'd do B.

The key thing is, don't precede or follow that 20 miler (i.e., in week 4 or 2) with anything other than a moderately paced, moderately shorter (15-16 mile) long run. Give your body a chance to absorb the training.

I felt flat in the race

Option C) 2 mile easy warm-up + 15 miles goal race pace + 2 mile warm-down (add the extra mile to whatever segment you want).

This workout comes from Daniels' "Plan A" and is called for twice with the last one 3 weeks out.

I like to run it during an organized group run or 30K race. It works out great to have support and you will almost always find someone running at your pace. Some times I adjust the warm-up (shorter) if I find someone to run with early.

During the race pace segment I may start out around 7:30 and work down to 7:10 area for the last few miles. (my last marathon was 7:17 avg.)

Kevin52 wrote:

Option C) 2 mile easy warm-up + 15 miles goal race pace + 2 mile warm-down (add the extra mile to whatever segment you want).

This workout comes from Daniels' "Plan A" and is called for twice with the last one 3 weeks out.

I like to run it during an organized group run or 30K race. It works out great to have support and you will almost always find someone running at your pace. Some times I adjust the warm-up (shorter) if I find someone to run with early.

During the race pace segment I may start out around 7:30 and work down to 7:10 area for the last few miles. (my last marathon was 7:17 avg.)

I agree this is the best confidence booster workout before a marathon. If you can run these 15 miles comfortably after a 2 mile warmup, with a three week taper you should be set. I just did the first of these two (2E+15MP+3E) last Sunday and it went well.

I have a scheduling issue for my last one. I have a 10k race on a Saturday. The schedule calls for the last (2E+15MP+3E) to be the next day, which obviously is not a good idea. So I was thinking that instead of moving it too close to my marathon I would move it to the Wednesday before the race...

Ugh trying to fix all these long runs in for Daniels is impossible if you have a short race...