The official Rich Harden is SICK and the most underrated player in baseball Thread

Is Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame yet?

Then who cares...

he's sick? well, that's certainly no surprise given his injury history. let me know how that dead arm he's been dealing with the last couple starts turns out.

I know Harden can be fragile, but I'm amazed how little they had to give up for him and Gaudin, both young guys who are under contract through next season. These aren't 2 month rental players who will leave via free agency.

Gallagher is a good pitcher, but he has to develop another pitch to be a top line starter. The guy has heart and should be good. Murton could be a 300 hitter, but not a power hitter and he is below average on defense. Likely a DH. Patterson is a question mark.

Even if Harden blows up, they didn't have to decimate their bench or farm system. They have enough to do another deal if necessary. Great job Hendry.

Me o my wrote:

Cubs got a steal with this trade. Harden (if healthy) is nasty. He is one of the 5 best pitchers in baseball and much better than CC. Also With addition of Gaudin the Cubs now have the best rotation in baseball to go with the best offense and solid bullpen (though recently struggling). If everyone stays healthy I would be shocked if they didnt win the division.

Dan Haren is a better pitcher, and the D-Backs will again win the terrible NL West, after signing Barry Bonds.

what is this "baseball"? does it involve base training and some sort of aerobics ball?

I disagree. Here are some of Harden's numbers over the last four years.

20-8

289 k's in 277 innings pitched.

2.76 ERA

In his last four seasons his highest, yes I said highest batting average against is .206.

This season his k/9 is over 10.

In not one of these categories is Haren superior over the last 4 years. He is more durable tho.

This trade was unbelievably one sided.

I am also really happy with the pickup. I think if the Cubs can somehow split some of his starts in the second half of the season with Marshall or something like that and save his arm for the playoffs. Of course the playoffs aren't a lock, but best case scenario. They have to play the Brewers and Cardinals a bunch of times in the second half so we shall see.

He has been injured often, but I think with a solid Cubs bullpen they can limit his innings and minimize those chances. Of course I am a Cubs fan so I see the upside of the deal.

first, you're insane if you think harden is a better pitcher than sabathia. second, harden hasn't pitched over 100 innings since '05, so that's actually a pretty small sample size. Is he good? Yes. Would you rather have Sabathia? You're an idiot if you wouldn't. The Cubs are finished with their absurdly soft first half schedule, and will be hard pressed to keep the Brewers and Cardinals off their back.

Me o my wrote:

I disagree. Here are some of Harden\'s numbers over the last four years.

20-8

289 k\'s in 277 innings pitched.

2.76 ERA

In his last four seasons his highest, yes I said highest batting average against is .206.

This season his k/9 is over 10.

In not one of these categories is Haren superior over the last 4 years. He is more durable tho.

This trade was unbelievably one sided.

4 seasons of Harden = 1 season of Santana

So you\'re telling me Harden is 1/4th the pitcher of Santana.

All I know is the Cubs have dealt with a pitcher with phenomenal talent, but an inability to stay healthy (see MARK PRIOR).

They didn\'t give up too much for Harden and Gaudin, but to say he\'s one of the best pitchers in the game is a major stretch. Durability is a MAJOR component of a great pitcher. You have to be healthy to pitch in October, when the Cubs need Harden the most. Unfortunately, that\'s something he\'s proven incapable of doing.

I, like the OP, am pretty fired up about this trade. I do like Murton and I think he can be a good player, but he was never going to get the time on the field in Chi-town.

I hope this trade is what they need to get over the top.

midwesta wrote:

first, you're insane if you think harden is a better pitcher than sabathia. second, harden hasn't pitched over 100 innings since '05, so that's actually a pretty small sample size. Is he good? Yes. Would you rather have Sabathia? You're an idiot if you wouldn't. The Cubs are finished with their absurdly soft first half schedule, and will be hard pressed to keep the Brewers and Cardinals off their back.

Who has been injured more, Harden or Sheets? After you answer that, who would you rather have, Zambrano or Sabathia? And next year, neither Sheets or Sabathia will be in Milwaukee.

Absurdly soft schedule, the classic excuse of loser teams behind in any sport. A baseball schedule isn't like Notre Dames football schedule. With travel and the amount of games, every series is tough.

By the way, was the Brewers or Mets schedule "absurdly soft" the first half of last year? Was that the reason why the gagged their divisions away?

The cubs could have the best player at every position and they STILL wouldn't win because after all, they are still the cubs.

Cub fans are the most obnoxious and least knowledgeable fans in MLB.

A-rod is the most underrated player in baseball. Even though he's put together an incredible career, he's still considered "weak" or "soft" or not a "true" yankee. If hitting 50 home runs and driving in 130 runs every year isn't the definition of a "true" yankee, then I wouldn't want to be one.

Ernie Nasser wrote:

Cub fans are the most obnoxious and least knowledgeable fans in MLB.

Red Sox fans are much more obnoxious, they are just more knowledgeable.

Ernie Nasser wrote:

Cub fans are the most obnoxious and least knowledgeable fans in MLB.

How did you manage to talk to all of them?

Asked Tuesday whether the A's got enough for one of the most overpowering pitchers in baseball, one scout chuckled: "For a guy who might break down tomorrow? Yeah."

Me o my wrote:

Cubs got a steal with this trade. Harden (if healthy) is nasty. He is one of the 5 best pitchers in baseball and much better than CC. Also With addition of Gaudin the Cubs now have the best rotation in baseball to go with the best offense and solid bullpen (though recently struggling). If everyone stays healthy I would be shocked if they didnt win the division.

Got to be healthy though. Kerry Wood and Mark Prior were supposed to be on the fast track to the Hall of Fame too...

Since Sabathia has shown durability at least to this point in his career, I can't agree that Harden is much better than the Cy Young-winning Sabathia. Cubs are positioned well though. Ryan Dempster showing his old form is as big a boost to the Cubs as anything. I wouldn't get too excited by a guy (Harden) with only 36 career victories in 6 seasons and 11 as the most ever in one season.

He's better than a kick in the crotch, but that's about it.

Who has been injured more?

Harden:

2004 - 189.2 IP, 31 games started

2005 - 128 IP, 19 games started

2006 - 46.2 IP, 9 Games started

2007 - 25.2 IP, 4 games started

Sheets:

2004 - 237.0 IP, 34 games started

2005 - 156.2 IP, 22 games started

2006 - 106 IP, 17 games started

2007 - 141 IP, 24 games started.

Yeah, that looks pretty comparable. And once again, if you would want Zambrano before Sabathia, then you're an idiot. Next year, they probably won't have either Sheets or Sabathia, true, but they'll get four more draft picks, including two more first rounders, and two more picks between the first and second round. I don't know if you've seen the Brewers minor league system, but it's far superior to what the Cubs have, and this will only help. And yes, the Brewers schedule was absurdly soft last year before the All-Star break. Fortunately this year, it's soft AFTER the All-Star break, whereas the cubs schedule only gets harder. I suppose the better indicator is head to head matchups though, and I've kind of forgotten what their record is against the brewers this year. They've only played them at Wrigley, so they must be better than .500 right? Could you remind me?