3200 Meter Question For High School Coaches

Depends on the athlete really? I coach a girl in the 10:50 range and rarely did a workout like 6 x 800. To be honest I have never been one to use workouts as indicators of fitness. Sure someone can go out and blast 6 x 400 but does that make them a fast miler? The best indicator of fitness is racing. To run a 11:20 she should be a 5:15-5:20-ish miler. If she can do that, AND a workout like 6 x 800 she should be in that sub 11:30 range.

I have found practices, of any type, to be worthless indicators of potential race performance - ESPECIALLY for HS students. 99% of HS kids are not real knowledgeable about pace. Are they running the workout and feeling good? Is it at T-hold? Are they throwing up after? Running "X" number of reps at "X" pace means nothing when a person does not know exactly what percent effort it is. And not "perceived" effort, but percent of max. effort as determined by physiological testing.

I don't know why so many people spend so much time trying to "predict" how fast they can race, based off of a practice. Races (not practice) are the best indicator of race performance - it is just that simple.

Race first, set up practice times based on race performance. Repeat. Not the other way around. Continue to do this for a long time and you will get better.

races are better indicators wrote:

Race first, set up practice times based on race performance. Repeat. Not the other way around. Continue to do this for a long time and you will get better.

Absolutely agree. Assuming you set up the workout correctly, if it felt too easy then you can think about trying to race faster next time. This is a really good way to convince the back-of-the-pack runners (who usually don't race up to their ability) that they can go faster in races.

The girl in question has not raced a 1600 or 3200 in the last 10 months but has raced a 18:05 for 5k recently and is a pretty even talent (no real weakness) who does VO2 max, Threshold, Repetitions, etc. all at about the same level of fitness.

She may be running a 3200 meter race soon, although its not her focus, and we are trying to decide a realistic goal. I fall into the camp of thinking that her 6 x 800 pace (VO2 max pace) is probably about right. She also has handled this pace on other similar VO2 max workouts like 5 x 1000 and 4 x 1200.

I appreciate everyone's advice on training, etc. but what I'm interested in mainly is has anyone had a young lady who did this type of VO2 max workout and how did it compare what she was able to race the 3200 meters in.

Thanks

Also if it helps the workout was 8 on an 1-10 effort scale. I always have my runners give me a rating on 1-10 scale for effort. I also do this based on what I see in the workout before I get there number and then compare the two. For this 6 x 800 workout we both thought it was an 8 out of 10 for her (in terms of effort).

If you don't have a recent 3200 race to work off of, you can use Daniels' charts to figure out the paces for her 800s. Also useful to get a rough goal for the 3200 based on the 5K mark.

Yep - I second the use of Daniels VDOT chart. I think 18:05 translates into about an equivalent perforance of 11:17 for 3200.

So, I would say you are in the ballpark.

VDOT says 11:17 for 2 mile (11:13-14 for 3200).

Can anyone confirm this with real world expereince.

We do 8x800 with about equal recovery and I have found that (for guys) it is more like 5k pace if they aren't trying to kill it to hard and are just settling in. When we do 6x800 the repititions are not really that much faster either. However, most of these guys are "aerobic monsters" and don't really thrown down great workout times. I think that if in the past her workouts have equated well to her racing that 6x800 should be a good predictor.

I have a girl who ran 11:18 in the spring who could do that workout @2:45. I never felt she raced to her potential in the 3200, though she did also run 5:11 1600.

My daughter, on the same team, ran that workout at 2:51. She ran 11:41 3200 and definitely hit her potential. Also ran a 5:28 at about the same time.

I'm guessing your girl is sub 11:20, but it's hard to tell.

Of course, you could just tell her that her workout indicates 11:10 fitness and have her get out in 5:30, then cross your fingers. Sometimes you've just got to say, what the f&^%.

I had a girl run 6 x 800 with 1 lap jog in 2:40. She ran 10:40 at our state meet that year.

We did not do the 6 x 800 workout near the state meet however, it was more of a mid season strength building thing. At the time she was doing those types of workouts, she was racing at 10:50-10:55. She was still fairly high mileage at the time (50 ish, 11th grade) and doing 1 other quality workout per week and 1-2 meets per week so the race times probably aren't as fast as the workout predicted.

She was a 4:59 for 1600 type of runner.

My input would be that if your girl runs fresh for 3200, then the workout pace would be a realistic goal pace. If she is not terribly fresh (ie training through the race as part of summer base building) then she will be closer to 11:30-11:40.

It varies. I could run two miles under 10 minutes when I was able to consistently do 6 x 880 yards (440 jog) in 2:30.

If the athlete is more of a 800/1500 type then they probably can't race at that pace. A 3k/5k type should be able to maintain 6x800 average for a race provided the workout wasn't allout. They should feel that they could have done 2 or maybe 3 more reps.

Our top girl ran 5:07, 10:52 and has run 17:25 for 5k (XC). She gets better the longer she goes. However she hovered at the 11:00 for almost the whole year. An 11:12 two mile is tough especially if she hasn't run a track season (you said she hasn't run a mile or 2 mile in 10 months). So I am guessing she was hurt?

Like I said before it is hard to guess from workouts where she will be. I agree that the workouts should be based off of the last race and the goal of where she is going. If you want to give her a goal pace for her race say something like 11:20 to 11:30. Hell, even 11:40 and when she breaks it she will feel great that she ran faster than her coach thought she could. Then off of this first race you can start to get an idea of where she is at.

That's a pretty tough assignment for anybody. It's certainly OK for training as a 1xwk workout, but I wouldn't put much faith in that or any similar workouts as "indicators" of 3200 or 5k race times. Too many variables related to basic ability, mentality in racing, and just plain unknowns. Trying to turn numbers into predictions, especially with so many variables in racing just never worked for me beyond some very general fitness and experience elements.

Any variety in intervals together with distance and hill running and fartleck and "chases" and flat out 200s to 800s with repetitions will all work, when the consistency and work ethic is there.

It's like the difference between practicing a musical instrument, doing exercises, scales, and flexibilities and "chop" building: one of your promising horn players can be a real terror in the practice room, just flying through everything he's working on, and then, when it comes to the performance or gig he might falter, choke, or just not have the stuff the more talented kids have. Sometimes it's "head," sometimes "heart," and sometimes genes.

Do the basics as you know them and give the kids an enjoyable experience when it comes to workouts AND racing. Don't try to count angels on the head of a pin.

That's a pretty tough assignment for anybody. It's certainly OK for training as a 1xwk workout, but I wouldn't put much faith in that or any similar workouts as "indicators" of 3200 or 5k race times. Too many variables related to basic ability, mentality in racing, and just plain unknowns. Trying to turn numbers into predictions, especially with so many variables in racing just never worked for me beyond some very general fitness and experience elements.

Any variety in intervals together with distance and hill running and fartleck and "chases" and flat out 200s to 800s with repetitions will all work, when the consistency and work ethic is there.

It's like the difference between practicing a musical instrument, doing exercises, scales, and flexibilities and "chop" building: one of your promising horn players can be a real terror in the practice room, just flying through everything he's working on, and then, when it comes to the performance or gig he might falter, choke, or just not have the stuff the more talented kids have. Sometimes it's "head," sometimes "heart," and sometimes genes.

Do the basics as you know them and give the kids an enjoyable experience when it comes to workouts AND racing. Don't try to count angels on the head of a pin.