Lydiard anaerobic phase

Try these:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/process_search.php?search=lydiard+anaerobic+training&search_time=0

http://lydiardfoundation.org

http://www.fitnesssports.com/lyd_clinic_guide/lydpg2.html

A number of good sources exist online. Nobby's Lydiard foundation is excellent, but there are a number of Letsrun posts on the subject as well.

Lydiard really didn't care just as long as you were tired. Keep in mind, you train your aerobic system with short rest....you train your anaerobic system with longer rest. These means they need to be FAST. He suggested something like 6x800 w/800 jog or 12x400 w/400 jog three times a week.

Alan

Jeffd wrote:

Im following Lydiard style programm, now doing the condition part 100-120 miles/week.

I just wondered what Lydiard means with anaerobic intervalls? Are they VO2max (5x1000m) or true anaerobic intervalls?

Lydiard's definition of anaerobic is wrong, hence the confusion.

He refered to hard VO2max type sessions as anaerobic, when in fact, as you are aware Jeff, they are actually mostly high intensity aerobic, and short sprints with long recoveries are the true anaerobic workouts.

A better term to replace "anaerobic" would be "glycolytic" or "lactic".

Alan

Im trying to brake 14:10 5k, so should I try to run the reps close to race pace/race effort?

(even without timing the reps).

I will try to follow the oldschool Lydiard programm,so 3 workouts per week..

What kind of workouts you guys suggest ?

1) Long progression run, start at 6:40 -> ~ 5:15min pace by the end

2) 4 mile tempo(5-5:05, or whatever it is supposed to be for you) + 400s/200s at goal race pace

3) Hill reps, 600-800m hard uphill, jog down keep recovery about a min longer than the rep.

4) 4X1600 + 200s

do not do the workouts above me...one progressive tempo every week starting at 5 and working up to 10. Do a fartlek run every week and slowly build that fartlek run into 16x400 with min rests at 3k pace after 4 weeks than after another 4 weeks go 24x400, and the only other workout you should do is the long run.....it's as simple as that.

do not do the workouts above me...one progressive tempo every week starting at 5 and working up to 10. Do a fartlek run every week and slowly build that fartlek run into 16x400 with min rests at 3k pace after 4 weeks than after another 4 weeks go 24x400, and the only other workout you should do is the long run.....it's as simple as that.

do not do the workouts above me...one progressive tempo every week starting at 5 and working up to 10. Do a fartlek run every week and slowly build that fartlek run into 16x400 with min rests at 3k pace after 4 weeks than after another 4 weeks go 24x400, and the only other workout you should do is the long run.....it's as simple as that.as you get closer to the race replace those 400's with 8x1000 at race pace with min. rest.

do not do the workouts above me...one progressive tempo every week starting at 5 and working up to 10. Do a fartlek run every week and slowly build that fartlek run into 16x400 with min rests at 3k pace after 4 weeks than after another 4 weeks go 24x400, and the only other workout you should do is the long run.....it's as simple as that.as you get closer to the race replace those 400's with 8x1000 at race pace with min. rest.

What's wrong with the workouts above you? I'm assuming he's aiming to run fast in the early summer not in 2.5 months

Lydiard's guys just did fairly normal intervals, 440s, 880, miles, 220s. He always told you to run them until you'd built up a big oxygen debt and then stop. One of his quotes was, "We all go to the track. I run 440s, you do 880s, the other guy does 220s. We all buikd up a big oxygen debt and we all get faster. It's a lot of eyewash."

Thanks guys...Yes Im aiming to run fast already in may...I just tought that should I trie to use different paces in reps.

Like rotate 1,5k; 3K ; 5k ; and 10K paced intervalls.

Something is bothering me to "just run until you build a big oxygen dept"

Jeffd wrote:

Something is bothering me to "just run until you build a big oxygen dept"

Dont blame ya. You Lidairdites are just plain wrong with you "just do this or that and don't woryy about details and stop when you feel tired" and all. The speedwork must be carefully planned and it is idiotic to say "do whatever". Some Lydiardites succeeded in spite of this crazy advice but how many did not succeed because of speedwork anarchy?

you have a whole nother 6-week phase, if you're following Lydiard exactly, to learn race pace. Don't worry too much about specific pace during the anaerobic phase.

I never got this obsession with "race pace."

I always like that there wasn't much concrete "you must run RACE PACE for so and so" in Lydiard's program.

I think Lydiard's anaerobic program is designed to get you to race, not pace.

What I mean is that if you're doing something like "do a hard 400, jog a 400, repeat until you've had enough" you don't even need a watch. You just go and go and go until you hit that point where its like "ok, if I do another one, I'm going to have to dip into the racing reserve to do it." So you stop, you recover, and you repeat this kind of workout.

Now, for me, I like to give myself a range of number of repeats and a range of times I'd like to hit. Maybe I'll write down "8-12 by 300 in 48-51" if I want to run a 4:20 mile. That gives me something, in general, to shoot for. So maybe I run 8, averaging 49, and I feel pretty good. Then I decide to start cutting down a little and run the next one in 50. I immediately call it day- once a 50 second 300 becomes a 47 second effort, I've done enough work. It's over. I don't care if its the 13th repeat (even though I only planned on doing 12) where I decide "ok, I'm done" or if its the 6th repeat when I wanted to do at least 8.

I think doing Lydiard type anaerobic workouts- "go until you've had enough, don't sweat time or distance or number of reps" is the way to go. It prepares you to get 3/4s or even 4/5s of the way through the race feeling, you know, not effortless, but like you've got some spirit left for your kick.

For me, anyway, hitting race pace without race day adrenaline is hard. When I was trying to run 1:55 in the 800 my senior year, 58 second quarters felt FAST- more like a bad 400 meter race than the proper pace for an 800. I abandoned trying to run 58s or 57s in practice; it was just too frustrating. Instead, my coach had me do things like "1000s til you're done" or "300s til you're tired" and I'd go and do 10 by 1000 or 16 by 300 and, for the 300s, never once hit 800 race in any of them (not even in the last one). The only time I could hit 800 pace was when we did 200s- and its not that hard to run a few 29s with a minute or more rest.

But when it came time for race day, the adrenaline was flowing and I was well rested and I just floated through the quarter in 57.point. I closed pretty well, got second in my race, and ran 1:55.5- yet, except for a few 200s, never ran "race pace" in practice. It's overrated. Just do workouts that get you tired, then stop, recover, and repeat. Don't worry about pace- as long as you're running with an appropriate level of effort, pace will take care of itself.

If it bothers you don't do it. The question was about what Lydiard did with his anaerobic phase and that's what he did.

HRE scores again!

Dude has questions. Many questions.

Why do the Letsrun Lydiardites behave this way when someone questions Lydiard ideals?

Discuss.

6x1600 w/2min rec. in 4:32 w/ last rep @ 4:28