Faster athlete that struggles with long aerobic work

Training Advice/Discussion High School

4 hours ago 07/22/2024 8:20pm EDT

Hi all,

New coach here. I have a runner who is decently quick in middle distance races (800, 1600) in track but really struggles (at least relatively speaking) with longer, more aerobic, interval training that we do in preparation for cross-country. Essentially, there's quite an offset from what his track times suggest he could run in an XC 5K and what he's been able to do.

I realize some of it may just be more practice. But rather than just discouraging him with aerobic training he consistently struggles doing, I thought I should at least investigate alternative approaches that (i) he may enjoy more/do better with, and (ii) may develop his aerobic abilities to be more in line with what his track times suggest he might run.

Any ideas? Pointing to past threads would be helpful, too, if you're aware of them. I did some searches on the forum, but I must be using the wrong terms. Thanks in advance!

4 hours ago 07/22/2024 8:30pm EDT

re: curtbentley

Maybe something like 400s at 10k? Or just add 10-15s to whatever his tempo is calculated at.

3 hours ago 07/22/2024 8:43pm EDT

re: curtbentley

Could you elaborate on what "decently quick" means in terms of times? Also how many miles per week do you have him running during the season? A rough idea of what he has run in an XC race would also be helpful

3 hours ago 07/22/2024 8:48pm EDT

re: jimbothecricket

Would also be helpful to know what your longer aerobic interval workouts look like. Many high schoolers will respond best to intervals no longer than 1000m (800m is my preference for HS off-track interval workouts). If the interval distance is longer it is often better to do a threshold workout instead (e.g. fartleks, tempo run, etc.)

3 hours ago 07/22/2024 8:51pm EDT

re: jimbothecricket

jimbothecricket wrote:
Could you elaborate on what "decently quick" means in terms of times? Also how many miles per week do you have him running during the season? A rough idea of what he has run in an XC race would also be helpful

Yeah. 4:21 in 1600M, 1:56 for 800M, 16:58 over 5K...though that was last year, and I'm sure he could go faster now. Traditionally, he's been too busy playing soccer to train a lot (probably 20-30 miles per week during last XC season), but he's started training more and is running around 40 miles per week right now.

3 hours ago 07/22/2024 8:58pm EDT

re: curtbentley

Georgetown 400s

peakrunperformance.com

GEORGETOWN 400s

Coach Jacob Puzey

We recommend GEORGETOWN 400s for runners of all ages, abilities, & ambitions regardless of the distance or surface for which they are training. In this video, Coach Eric Reyes demonstrates how to perform this effective stamin...

Link:www.peakrunperformance.com/post/george...

3 hours ago 07/22/2024 8:59pm EDT

re: jimbothecricket

jimbothecricket wrote:
Would also be helpful to know what your longer aerobic interval workouts look like. Many high schoolers will respond best to intervals no longer than 1000m (800m is my preference for HS off-track interval workouts). If the interval distance is longer it is often better to do a threshold workout instead (e.g. fartleks, tempo run, etc.)

Sorry, didn't see this when I posted my last reply. Yeah, we haven't really done any interval work other than threshold intervals. Pretty standard stuff...5'/2', 3'/1', and 400M/100M (threshold/active recovery). Finishing with some faster 200s or strides.

3 hours ago 07/22/2024 9:19pm EDT

re: curtbentley

Sounds like you might want to try a workout that touches on higher speeds but lasts for a longish duration. My high school coach had us do a workout he called the Oregon drill. I can't remember exactly how long we would do it for, but it kept getting longer each year. It was always over 30 minutes (warmup and cooldown not included).

The general idea is three ~100m lanes setup on a grass field where you run barefoot. The first lane is run at easy pace, second at XC race pace, and third is a stride out. Moving between lanes is a jog (no walking allowed but slow jogging is fine). We would do it for 30 minutes to an hour depending on our fitness. This is the only workout besides hill workouts that I remember thinking of as "fun" in high school. It works on running mechanics while also teaching athletes how to change gears effectively.

2 hours ago 07/22/2024 9:41pm EDT

re: curtbentley

When I was in high school, we did 5-6x1000m on trails at Jack Daniel's "Interval" pace probably once per week from early August until late September (maybe a bit into October, can't remember). Seemed to work great for developing our 5k times specifically. First couple sessions each season, we probably only did 3-4 reps.

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