HS athlete struggling with tempos… solution?

It's July 9 and probably very hot where you are. Heat takes a ton out of me and I can't really run anything continuous and hard at all - I remember my heart rate averaged 170 for the first 4 miles of a run at 6:50 pace in 85* and sunny weather, when I was in about 4:10 mile shape. So if he's in 4:37 shape and less developed it'll be even worse

I don't like treadmill continuous tempos (I can tolerate stuff like repeat miles / 3000s but that's it) but maybe put him on a treadmill? Or as you said, 4xmile at 6:00 but that seems very slow and low volume to me

Even if he's only in 10:10 shape now (adjusting to same conditions as his PR) that puts his 5000 at probably 16:30 at worst, which puts his tempo at about 5:40 to 5:45

Maybe start him with 3 x mile at 5:40 pace. Or even 3 x 1k at that pace. Take 1-2 minutes standing rest.

In the summer, this might be more like 6:00 pace. If he responds well to intervals, he might like this much better and hit better quality paces. The training adaptations will be similar and then you can move to 2 x 1.5 mile and eventually 3 mile when temps and dew points improve.

5x1k 90-120 sec rest at 3:45 pace and if he can cut down to 3:30 or so, perfect

Just an easy layup workout

He’s PRed nearly a minute since last year. Why try to change anything? He’s pushing workouts and that’s the most important piece.

A couple of things. First consider breaking it up into threshold intervals with short rest (e.g.) 8x1km @10k-hm (1 min rest), 5 x 1 mile (1 min) etc and see how he gets on with that. Much easier mentally, especially in the heat and gets most of the same benefits physiologically.

Second, if they're a faster twitch/muscular athlete then they may not respond particularly well to continuous threshold sessions. For these athletes a slower tempo is recommended (which he's already doing), or breaking them up as above. You can even go to further extremes and give them something like 12-15x400m @10k with 35s jog, this is an LT workout but more amenable to FT types.

He should rarely push himself to the limit in workouts, and doing so can lead to burning out.

Continuous tempos are kind of silly, especially in the summer. Just break it up into manageable 3-5 minute chunks with a short rest.

All good advice. I already have 1 other workout a week planned over the summer and that other workout is basically a broken up tempo. I would like to build this kids aerobic base so he doesn't need to break it up though. Funny because I said to him "tempo pace for a 9:50 kid is around 5:45. Not that I expect that right now, but to give you context for what you probably would have done in the spring." His response was telling "no way is that right. I can't run 5:45 pace for 3miles". I was shocked about his lacj of confidence. This coming from a kid who was clipping off 3:10-15 1000s with a min rest in the spring. Maybe a better question is how do I train his mind?

This is 100% great advice.

There's nothing magical about the continuous tempo run. The purpose is to spend time at a given intensity. Get there however works best for the kid - tailor the training to the kid. Don't force the kid to fit the training. Trying to force the kid to hit the full tempo run (especially in the summer, it's really hot right now) is just gonna frustrate you and the kid and undermine his confidence. Plus every time he bonks a continuous run is a missed opportunity to accumulate the minutes.

1. Tempo runs should never be difficult.

2. What time of day?

I don't see anything wrong with this pace and effort given time of season and weather. I would just continue to have him run these every so often (every 10-14 days), with gradual increases in pace and hopefully - a similar HR. The majority of his runs should not be 8 min pace tho. I would push for gradual increases in daily pacing and more medium, even medium hard efforts. 9 min pace should not be part of his training, ever.

9:50 guy tempoing at 7:00 pace? Dude's not in shape, just give him easy runs or short fartleks right now. Something like 10x1min on/off might be better for him

Why should 9 min pace never be part of his training?

Isn't the new thinking that they shouldn't be pounded into the ground with fast long miles and instead be doing more long slow runs?

Like others have said, break it up into chunks. Nothing to worry about. It's July.

it's a common issue with high school kids. some can do workouts that far outshine what they'll do no the track, but some are COMPLETELY opposite. take your time, and keep building the base safely. threshold intervals of 400, 800, 1k, 2k, 3k, etc. are all great.

also, getting the workouts in very early can make a huge difference.

and the footwear is so radically different these days, i think it can easily make a difference in pace by 20 seconds, if you go from something like an INvincible or structure vs something like a vaporfly, endorphin pro, or spikes.

I made the same jump, 11:0x -> 10:0x, but the whole off season before that (in 40 degrees, good conditions), my tempos were in the 6:20s -> 6:40s for 30 min. My track intervals were 800s or 1000s at 5:40 - 6:00 pace. That's right before the season started though and before that, things were even slower (first tempos 7:0x/mi, 400s @ 6:0x/mi w/ equal rest, etc)

If he took a break, just trust your own process that got him there in the first place, aerobic development takes time.

Malmo...
1. Agree. But your idea of not difficult and this kids idea of not difficult are 2 very different things. You have to keep in mind, some of my better kids, if you let them, will literally jog at 8:30-9:30 pace. Not because they are tired or beat up... but rather just because a shuffle feels better than a run. Half my job is helping them distinguish between running and training. They frequently get back, I check their strava, and a 6mile run will take them an hour. Most of it was done at 8min pace with 12min of stops. I ask why they stopped and they giggle. Stop lights, bathroom breaks, probably just stopping to stop. Anyway, this athlete in particular is an interesting case. He was terrible as a freshman. He ran 13:12, 5:51, 2:33. Progressed to 4:57 and 10:40 and then I took over the program and this year he ran the 4:35 and 9:50. But despite that, he doesn't trust himself and his steady state of being is to just jog. I fear the combination of lack of desire to feel uncomfortable plus lack of confidence will dent his growth as an athlete. He wants to be good and is running the mileage... so at least there is that. I'll give one last example... I run with him sometimes. When we go together we clip off 7:30-8:00 pace (that's about my limit these days). When I leave him (I'll do 5, he'll do 7, lets say), he'll slam on the breaks and run 9:00 pace. Explain that one? Also interesting... his 4:35 and 9:50 were pretty much one offs. He had another 10flat and 4:41... but his other races were worse. Not because he was in bad shape... but because he just wasn't tough in races. I think to some degree the tempos will help with that.

2. It was at 7:30 or 8am.

Get your ferritin levels checked..you need to be between 30-120ng/ml, anything under 30 and you have no oxygen carrying capacity.