With Blanks making the US team and Ramsden looking likely to make the NZL team, it's worth looking at how incredible of a coach Alex Gibby has been since starting at Harvard.
Gibby joined in fall 2017 into the middle of a mess. Harvard men and women finished dead last at Heps XC. Nobody made nationals.
Since then, Gibby has shaped the team into being a mid-pack team at national XC with a few extremely bright individual standouts who are Olympic calibre: Tuntivate, Blanks, Ramsden. He also coached Pereira, Iverson, and a few others I forget into all-american status. Every single one of these runners improved dramatically under Gibby.
It's hard to think of any college coach doing a better turnaround job than this. While Harvard is not yet (and maybe never will be) up there with the NAUs of the country from a team perspective, my hat goes off to Gibby for the work he's been doing. Harvard is legitimately now a better option for many distance runners than Stanford, which is kind of absurd with no scholarships.
What other coaches have ever been able to turn around a failed team and produce Olympic level individual talent like this in half a decade with $0 in scholarship money?
Ramsden is on the final Road to Paris list so I think that means she's officially in.
Kimberly May is qualified (would be ranked #42 of 45 on the filtered list) but looks like New Zealand is cheaping out and not sending her. I really don't understand it, are they obligated to pay for anything more than a uniform and airfare? I bet New Zealand is paying for plenty of useless dignitaries and officials to go though.
No Olympians but Vinny had two runner up team performances at Dartmouth. This was still during the era ncaa rules were much more lax and non Ivy League schools could dip into more money beyond scholarship allotment.
Should also point out that Venezuela, whose government is essentially bankrupt, figured out a way to send Joselyn Brea who has a similar ranking to May.
Ramsden is on the final Road to Paris list so I think that means she's officially in.
Kimberly May is qualified (would be ranked #42 of 45 on the filtered list) but looks like New Zealand is cheaping out and not sending her. I really don't understand it, are they obligated to pay for anything more than a uniform and airfare? I bet New Zealand is paying for plenty of useless dignitaries and officials to go though.
If NZ sent the 42nd ranked Kimber May, wot other 42nd ranked athlete would they have to send in other events?
Ramsden is on the final Road to Paris list so I think that means she's officially in.
Kimberly May is qualified (would be ranked #42 of 45 on the filtered list) but looks like New Zealand is cheaping out and not sending her. I really don't understand it, are they obligated to pay for anything more than a uniform and airfare? I bet New Zealand is paying for plenty of useless dignitaries and officials to go though.
If NZ sent the 42nd ranked Kimber May, wot other 42nd ranked athlete would they have to send in other events?
Theo Quax? I recall him being on the bubble. he might not be as high as 42 but hes somewhere in that range.
Ramsden is on the final Road to Paris list so I think that means she's officially in.
Kimberly May is qualified (would be ranked #42 of 45 on the filtered list) but looks like New Zealand is cheaping out and not sending her. I really don't understand it, are they obligated to pay for anything more than a uniform and airfare? I bet New Zealand is paying for plenty of useless dignitaries and officials to go though.
Maybe that’s why Maia is over running in St. Moritz with Olivia and Ky.
Harvard actually has an amazing setup for recruiting and the financial aid they offer is better, and more plentiful, than athletic scholarships.
For example, two of their recent throwers also qualified for the Olympics. Ratcliffe qualified in the hammer. Ikeji had a high enough world ranking and placed 2nd at the UK Olympic Trials but UK Athletics rejected him (among many others) that don't have the standard.
With Blanks making the US team and Ramsden looking likely to make the NZL team, it's worth looking at how incredible of a coach Alex Gibby has been since starting at Harvard.
Gibby joined in fall 2017 into the middle of a mess. Harvard men and women finished dead last at Heps XC. Nobody made nationals.
Since then, Gibby has shaped the team into being a mid-pack team at national XC with a few extremely bright individual standouts who are Olympic calibre: Tuntivate, Blanks, Ramsden. He also coached Pereira, Iverson, and a few others I forget into all-american status. Every single one of these runners improved dramatically under Gibby.
It's hard to think of any college coach doing a better turnaround job than this. While Harvard is not yet (and maybe never will be) up there with the NAUs of the country from a team perspective, my hat goes off to Gibby for the work he's been doing. Harvard is legitimately now a better option for many distance runners than Stanford, which is kind of absurd with no scholarships.
What other coaches have ever been able to turn around a failed team and produce Olympic level individual talent like this in half a decade with $0 in scholarship money?
All very good points. But why is it happening?
What's Gibby doing that's making it happen?
And why can't it happen at more Ivy League and similar type schools?
Harvard actually has an amazing setup for recruiting and the financial aid they offer is better, and more plentiful, than athletic scholarships.
For example, two of their recent throwers also qualified for the Olympics. Ratcliffe qualified in the hammer. Ikeji had a high enough world ranking and placed 2nd at the UK Olympic Trials but UK Athletics rejected him (among many others) that don't have the standard.
Don't forget about Gabby Thomas.
True, but Ramsden/Blanks/Tuntivate were not super highly recruited as far as I know
While Gibby did inherit a last place men's team, he inherited the DEFENDING CHAMPION women's team who won in a landslide before he got there. 3 freshmen women in the top 5 and 2 juniors, so the entire top 5 was returning.
The men's team was not untalented. He inherited Tuntivate and a 1:47 runner in Marshall. Battershill ran 8:55 in the steeplechase as a freshman before Gibby.
His first year he inherited Abbe Goldstein as an incoming freshman (now a current pro), as well as Anna Juul who would become a national qualifier in XC and the 1500.
It's not quite the rags to riches story you make it out to be.
With Blanks making the US team and Ramsden looking likely to make the NZL team, it's worth looking at how incredible of a coach Alex Gibby has been since starting at Harvard.
Gibby joined in fall 2017 into the middle of a mess. Harvard men and women finished dead last at Heps XC. Nobody made nationals.
Since then, Gibby has shaped the team into being a mid-pack team at national XC with a few extremely bright individual standouts who are Olympic calibre: Tuntivate, Blanks, Ramsden. He also coached Pereira, Iverson, and a few others I forget into all-american status. Every single one of these runners improved dramatically under Gibby.
It's hard to think of any college coach doing a better turnaround job than this. While Harvard is not yet (and maybe never will be) up there with the NAUs of the country from a team perspective, my hat goes off to Gibby for the work he's been doing. Harvard is legitimately now a better option for many distance runners than Stanford, which is kind of absurd with no scholarships.
What other coaches have ever been able to turn around a failed team and produce Olympic level individual talent like this in half a decade with $0 in scholarship money?
All very good points. But why is it happening?
What's Gibby doing that's making it happen?
And why can't it happen at more Ivy League and similar type schools?
Controversial "maintenance pace" training method (all runs at 6:00 for men, 7:00 for women) has instilled a culture where only the runners who take it extremely seriously survive and thrive. Early examples of senior runners (Tuntivate -> Pereira -> Blanks) set the tone for what could happen if you take this training seriously, leading to a cultural shift on the team.
Ivy League is good for recruiting but otherwise think you would see Gibby having better results at schools with less distracting academics/extracurriculars.
Problem with others implementing this method is that it's pretty painful in the transition, as you're washing out a bunch of good runners who don't want to fully commit. Best to start with a struggling school with nothing to lose, much harder to come in to an already competitive school and change everything like he did.
While Gibby did inherit a last place men's team, he inherited the DEFENDING CHAMPION women's team who won in a landslide before he got there. 3 freshmen women in the top 5 and 2 juniors, so the entire top 5 was returning.
The men's team was not untalented. He inherited Tuntivate and a 1:47 runner in Marshall. Battershill ran 8:55 in the steeplechase as a freshman before Gibby.
His first year he inherited Abbe Goldstein as an incoming freshman (now a current pro), as well as Anna Juul who would become a national qualifier in XC and the 1500.
It's not quite the rags to riches story you make it out to be.
The top 4 women from 2016 did not compete in 2017 following the previous coaching madness as 2 of them transferred out, 1 was injured, and 1 quit the team. Not super fair to say that he inherited a defending champion team haha
Tuntivate, Battershill, Goldstein, Juul were all solid runners but only Abbe was national class before training under Gibby
Not to say that there was no talent at all prior to Gibby (it's a D1 program after all) but he did a phenomenal job bringing a failing/struggling program to one that is now seeing huge success
While Gibby did inherit a last place men's team, he inherited the DEFENDING CHAMPION women's team who won in a landslide before he got there. 3 freshmen women in the top 5 and 2 juniors, so the entire top 5 was returning.
The men's team was not untalented. He inherited Tuntivate and a 1:47 runner in Marshall. Battershill ran 8:55 in the steeplechase as a freshman before Gibby.
His first year he inherited Abbe Goldstein as an incoming freshman (now a current pro), as well as Anna Juul who would become a national qualifier in XC and the 1500.
It's not quite the rags to riches story you make it out to be.
The top 4 women from 2016 did not compete in 2017 following the previous coaching madness as 2 of them transferred out, 1 was injured, and 1 quit the team. Not super fair to say that he inherited a defending champion team haha
Tuntivate, Battershill, Goldstein, Juul were all solid runners but only Abbe was national class before training under Gibby
Not to say that there was no talent at all prior to Gibby (it's a D1 program after all) but he did a phenomenal job bringing a failing/struggling program to one that is now seeing huge success
Dude he literally inherited an Olympian level talent - TERTSCH QUALIFIED FOR PARIS OLYMPICS IN THE TRIATHLON.
Pendergast transferred for a minute then came back to Harvard.
It doesn't really matter what their PR was before joining, it matters what their potential is. Nobody can say he inherited mediocre athletes. For example Tuntivate had INSANE talent and did qualify for the 2022 World Championships.
He also got Sophia Gorriaran to go there. Big recruiting win. Will be interesting to see what she accomplishes there. She didn’t PR in the 800 her first year. Hopefully she goes under 2:00 next year.
Ramsden is on the final Road to Paris list so I think that means she's officially in.
Kimberly May is qualified (would be ranked #42 of 45 on the filtered list) but looks like New Zealand is cheaping out and not sending her. I really don't understand it, are they obligated to pay for anything more than a uniform and airfare? I bet New Zealand is paying for plenty of useless dignitaries and officials to go though.
If NZ sent the 42nd ranked Kimber May, wot other 42nd ranked athlete would they have to send in other events?
Why not let athletes pay their own way? Even the poorest track athlete could set up a go-fund-me and quickly raise the needed funds. Stupid to apply the same standards to uber-expensive, non-competitive events like equestrian and a globally ultra-competitive event like the 1500.
The top 4 women from 2016 did not compete in 2017 following the previous coaching madness as 2 of them transferred out, 1 was injured, and 1 quit the team. Not super fair to say that he inherited a defending champion team haha
Tuntivate, Battershill, Goldstein, Juul were all solid runners but only Abbe was national class before training under Gibby
Not to say that there was no talent at all prior to Gibby (it's a D1 program after all) but he did a phenomenal job bringing a failing/struggling program to one that is now seeing huge success
Dude he literally inherited an Olympian level talent - TERTSCH QUALIFIED FOR PARIS OLYMPICS IN THE TRIATHLON.
Pendergast transferred for a minute then came back to Harvard.
It doesn't really matter what their PR was before joining, it matters what their potential is. Nobody can say he inherited mediocre athletes. For example Tuntivate had INSANE talent and did qualify for the 2022 World Championships.
Tertsch and Pendergast were both not on the team when Gibby joined thanks to Patrick Wales-Dinan and the controversy involving him.
Who is saying he inherited mediocre athletes? Certainly not me. My point is that he inherited a team that was in extreme difficulty and turned it around to become a team that has been consistently able to nurture the talent of its athletes rather than suppress it. That's a really difficult thing to do.
The fact that Tertsch and Tuntivate have fulfilled their potential to compete internationally should be a sign of Gibby's strength, not something used to undersell him.
One thing that people forget here is that the kids he is coaching a very bright and accomplished academic students when they arrive on campus. These kids have already learned discipline before they start with Gibby’s training.
What other coaches have ever been able to turn around a failed team and produce Olympic level individual talent like this in half a decade with $0 in scholarship money?
1. I love coach Gibby and talk to him several times a year on the phone. Gibby is a great coach and has a gone a BRILLIANT job at Harvard.
2. But can we admit these coaching threads are the most annoying aspect of letsrun?
The ridiculous over exaltation and tearing down of coaches is crazy. Gibby is the perfect example of that. Here the OP is acting like he's a God. A few months ago, he was a moron on here for injuring Blanks and not convincing the freshman who ran 3:38 for 1500 in HS to not quit the team. And please don't mention his name to the old-time Michigan guys as he and Warhurst never got along so they don't like Gibby and act like he's horrible. All of it is so over the top in one direction or the other. There needs to be nuance on the coaching threads.
3. The OP should not have used the word historic.
What's historic about it? It's DAMN impressive but not historic. Mark Coogan did exactly the same thing a decade ago at Dartmouth when he took over a terrible team and turned it around immediately and coached Abby D to 7 NCAA titles and the Olympics.
My boss at Cornell - Nathan Taylor - took over a terrible track team, made it TOTALLY dominant at the Ivy level and coached national champs in back to back years in the triple jump. Steve Dolan coached Don Cabral to the NCAA title and the Olympics final. Didn't Kyle Merber run an NCAA record for Willy Wood at Columbia? I watched Morgan Uceny struggle to break 2:20 as a freshman when I was at Cornell and she ended up being an NCAA star and ended up world ranked #1 in the 1500? Didn't Sondre Guttormsen just win 3 straight NCAA titles and break the NCAA record in the pole vault? Vig coached the Princeton DMR to the NCAA title and Ed Trippas to the Olympics. I could go on and on.
4) It's weird what we focus on. When I was coaching, I'd score the conference meets 800 on up to see how I was doing as a coach. By that measure, the Princeton men just had one of the most dominant years in ivy history.
In addition to winning the triple crown in team titles, their men's mid-d and distance guys scored a staggering 161 points indoors and outdoors at conference. 2nd place was Cornell at 69. Harvard which clearly was hurt big time by Blanks' absence was third with 57.
So should we call what Princeton did under Vig this year historic? When I left outdoors Heps, I assumed so as it seemed like they were scoring 15 points in every distance event but then I went home and calculated the scores and compared it to the spreadsheet I kept for the 10 years I coached. In 2012, under Dolan, Princeton won the triple crown and scored 163 points 800 on up.
Full disclosure, I also talk to Vig several times year on the phone and think he's a great coach as well.
5) The reality is there are a lot of strong coaches out there. They just all need exceptional talent to be exceptional.
Harvard and Princeton consistently get exceptional talent. No one else in the Ivies does (at least I assume that's the case I don't follow it closely anymore). When I was coaching, Dolan at one point had 8 sub-9 guys on the Princeton xc team. Cornell had never had a sub-9 guy in the history of the school (remember I stopped coaching in 2012).
But Gibby has done an AMAZING job with Ramsden and Blanks. They just seemingly get better and better when I found it really hard for people who had brilliant junior campaigns to build on that for the next year.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
