HS cross country times have improve significantly

High School Running Distance

1 month ago 06/26/2024 12:02pm EDT

Woodward Park is the same exact course now, as it was in the 1980s. Hard pack dirt surface with rolling hills. It is a course that is comparable from year to year.

TOP 10 times at Woodward Park in 2023
14:35
14:45
14:45
14:46
14:49
14:52
14:56
14:58
14:58
14:58

TOP 10 times at Woodward Park in 1999
15:21
15:24
15:27
15:29
15:31
15:31
15:32
15:32
15:34
15:37

No wonder there has been no sub 9 guys in the 1990s.

ca.milesplit.com

CIF State XC Championships 2023 - Combined Boys (Raw)

MileSplits official Combined Boys raw results for the 2023 CIF State XC Championships, hosted by Record Timing in Fresno CA.

Link:ca.milesplit.com/meets/569139-cif-stat...

You can do the research yourself. Click Meet History then select a year.

1 month ago 06/26/2024 12:05pm EDT

re: HS XC Runners are Improving

With the advent of new spikes and changing courses over the years, I find it hard(er) to compare XC times vs track.

There are some issues with Mr. Bill Meylan's work, but for the most part his TullyRunners speed ratings are the best capture of how "good" a time is.

1 month ago 06/26/2024 12:11pm EDT

re: jabouko

The course has never changed. It has been documented to be the exact same since 1987. There are landmarks used to make sure of it. The surface has not changed either.

YouTube.com

Woodward Park 5k XC Course

JesuitTrack

Updated original video map created years ago. Also recommended as a course preview: "CIF Woodward Park Cross Country Course 360° experience" at: https://y...

Video:www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bEsbVvri1k

1 month ago 06/26/2024 2:14pm EDT

re: HS XC Runners are Improving

90's were the days of no high tech shoes, no access to competitive meets, no existence to social media, and the popularity of 30-35 mile weeks. Therefore, you will get talented runners running in the 15's but not cracking the sub 15 mark unless you were super talented like Louie Quintana Jr. for example. Anyhow, it's great that the sport has elevated in all aspects. Last, the course has not changed at all and basically if you can run sub 15 at Woodward you probably won't have a problem running sub 9 for 3200m.

1 month ago 06/26/2024 3:40pm EDT

re: HS XC Runners are Improving

HS XC Runners are Improving wrote:
Woodward Park is the same exact course now, as it was in the 1980s. Hard pack dirt surface with rolling hills. It is a course that is comparable from year to year.
TOP 10 times at Woodward Park in 2023
14:35
14:45
14:45
14:46
14:49
14:52
14:56
14:58
14:58
14:58
TOP 10 times at Woodward Park in 1999
15:21
15:24
15:27
15:29
15:31
15:31
15:32
15:32
15:34
15:37
No wonder there has been no sub 9 guys in the 1990s.
Link:ca.milesplit.com/meets/569139-cif-stat...
You can do the research yourself. Click Meet History then select a year.

Yet in Michigan, there habe been multiple national champs & several future Olympians (Kessler, Hough, Norder, Fisher, etc etc) who haven't been within spitting distance of Ritzenhein's record at MIS, home of the MI state meet. Like not even close, and he ran that 14:10 nearly 25 years ago. On shizt spikes. Probably Zoom XCs.

1 month ago 06/26/2024 3:52pm EDT

re: notinmichigan

notinmichigan wrote:
HS XC Runners are Improving wrote:
Woodward Park is the same exact course now, as it was in the 1980s. Hard pack dirt surface with rolling hills. It is a course that is comparable from year to year.
TOP 10 times at Woodward Park in 2023
14:35
14:45
14:45
14:46
14:49
14:52
14:56
14:58
14:58
14:58
TOP 10 times at Woodward Park in 1999
15:21
15:24
15:27
15:29
15:31
15:31
15:32
15:32
15:34
15:37
No wonder there has been no sub 9 guys in the 1990s.
Link:ca.milesplit.com/meets/569139-cif-stat...
You can do the research yourself. Click Meet History then select a year.
Yet in Michigan, there habe been multiple national champs & several future Olympians (Kessler, Hough, Norder, Fisher, etc etc) who haven't been within spitting distance of Ritzenhein's record at MIS, home of the MI state meet. Like not even close, and he ran that 14:10 nearly 25 years ago. On shizt spikes. Probably Zoom XCs.

There were a few shining stars in the dark days of the 90s and 00s. The problem was always the depth, because while guys like Ritz were running 100 mpw in high school, most were doing 30.

But yes, Ritz is still the undisputed GOAT of the "modern" (Foot Locker/speed ratings) era and you're kidding yourself if you think he's not.

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