Why does the Norwegian threshold training method not work on women as it does on the male runners? I saw an interview with Ingrid Ingebregtsen where she states that they are still working on tweaking the same system her brothers have used with success for over a decade, because it does not quite work for her the same way because she’s a female. And I definitely don’t see ANY female Norwegian runners atop any of the Diamond league standings or in the finals of any Olympic distance event. Wonder why it doesn’t work on women the same way it does for me.
Norwegian Threshold Training Method for females
Training Advice/Discussion
General
-
37
-
Celtic wrote:
Why does the Norwegian threshold training method not work on women as it does on the male runners? I saw an interview with Ingrid Ingebregtsen where she states that they are still working on tweaking the same system her brothers have used with success for over a decade, because it does not quite work for her the same way because she’s a female. And I definitely don’t see ANY female Norwegian runners atop any of the Diamond league standings or in the finals of any Olympic distance event. Wonder why it doesn’t work on women the same way it does for me.
Look a little closer for Karoline Grøvdal.
140 -
Celtic wrote:
Why does the Norwegian threshold training method not work on women as it does on the male runners? I saw an interview with Ingrid Ingebregtsen where she states that they are still working on tweaking the same system her brothers have used with success for over a decade, because it does not quite work for her the same way because she’s a female. And I definitely don’t see ANY female Norwegian runners atop any of the Diamond league standings or in the finals of any Olympic distance event. Wonder why it doesn’t work on women the same way it does for me.
Premise is false. This training method works for anyone, but it may also not be the best training method for any given individual.
73 -
It works on female runners aswell, but weight is more important for female runners than for male runners. So East African female runners have a bigger advantage than males. And Ingrid didnt have the right ”body type”. People say that Gjert wanted her to lose weight and that was one of the things they were fightning about. Also Ingrid didnt have the same raw talent as Jakob and Henrik, she was/is more like her other brothers.
kristiansen/waitz were pretty amazing norwegian female runners that did threshold training.
25 -
Doesn't Grovdal do relatively low mileage with lots of cross country skiing as cross training? Not the typical "Norwegian method", i.e. high mileage plus 2 double T and an x-factor session?
In answer to the OP I'd guess its because the risk of stress fractures is so much higher in women that it no longer becomes a low risk method of training. Personally I think we're going to continue to see more top women do some of their volume cross training as stress reactions/fractures are so damn common - progress is all about stacking up good consistent weeks over time. Valby, Allie O, Keely, Georgia Bell, Natasha Phillips are all good examples of other top athletes spending a significant amount of their time doing things other than running.
83 -
Celtic wrote:
Why does the Norwegian threshold training method not work on women as it does on the male runners? I saw an interview with Ingrid Ingebregtsen where she states that they are still working on tweaking the same system her brothers have used with success for over a decade, because it does not quite work for her the same way because she’s a female. And I definitely don’t see ANY female Norwegian runners atop any of the Diamond league standings or in the finals of any Olympic distance event. Wonder why it doesn’t work on women the same way it does for me.
Which interview was this? Karoline Grøvdal is pretty successfull, imo. But I think we have yet to have anyone do it from a young age.
51 -
LarsL11 wrote:
Celtic wrote:
Why does the Norwegian threshold training method not work on women as it does on the male runners? I saw an interview with Ingrid Ingebregtsen where she states that they are still working on tweaking the same system her brothers have used with success for over a decade, because it does not quite work for her the same way because she’s a female. And I definitely don’t see ANY female Norwegian runners atop any of the Diamond league standings or in the finals of any Olympic distance event. Wonder why it doesn’t work on women the same way it does for me.
Which interview was this? Karoline Grøvdal is pretty successfull, imo. But I think we have yet to have anyone do it from a young age.
Are we sure Grøvdal follows this system?..i always thought she was more of a *whisper it* valby type where her milage is relatively low but she does a tonne of XC skiing to make up the volume.
I'm ignorant on how XC skiiers break down their training in terms of threshold, VO2, Easy stuff etc but would be curious to know the crossover to the Bakken/Ingebrigtsen system
Also any chance if a link to the Ingrid Ingebrigtsen article? I was under the impression she was done with athletics. It'd be great if she hung in there
51 -
Yeah but wrote:
Doesn't Grovdal do relatively low mileage with lots of cross country skiing as cross training? Not the typical "Norwegian method", i.e. high mileage plus 2 double T and an x-factor session?
In answer to the OP I'd guess its because the risk of stress fractures is so much higher in women that it no longer becomes a low risk method of training. Personally I think we're going to continue to see more top women do some of their volume cross training as stress reactions/fractures are so damn common - progress is all about stacking up good consistent weeks over time. Valby, Allie O, Keely, Georgia Bell, Natasha Phillips are all good examples of other top athletes spending a significant amount of their time doing things other than running.
yes, this is a better post than mine..i should have kept reading
10 -
Togher wrote:
LarsL11 wrote:
Which interview was this? Karoline Grøvdal is pretty successfull, imo. But I think we have yet to have anyone do it from a young age.
Are we sure Grøvdal follows this system?..i always thought she was more of a *whisper it* valby type where her milage is relatively low but she does a tonne of XC skiing to make up the volume.
I'm ignorant on how XC skiiers break down their training in terms of threshold, VO2, Easy stuff etc but would be curious to know the crossover to the Bakken/Ingebrigtsen system
Also any chance if a link to the Ingrid Ingebrigtsen article? I was under the impression she was done with athletics. It'd be great if she hung in there
She cut down her volume a lot to avoid injuries, but trains more at threshold than before. More quality when she runs, then volume at skis (from an 2021 interview)What she cut down, seems to be, a lot of the easy running (40 minutes/10km is mentioned) which is then replaced with 1.5 hours roller skis.
I will search for more sources.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.41 -
German coach Isabelle Baumann, whose most successful female athlete is Hanna Klein
(8:35/14:51) right now, recently stated in a podcast that double threshold training doesn't work well for female athletes. Her reasoning was that female athletes run proportionally faster (compared to men, I guess?) and with higher lactate values, so that traditional double threshold training would quickly lead to muscular issues.51 -
maybe single t works better wrote:
German coach Isabelle Baumann, whose most successful female athlete is Hanna Klein
(8:35/14:51) right now, recently stated in a podcast that double threshold training doesn't work well for female athletes. Her reasoning was that female athletes run proportionally faster (compared to men, I guess?) and with higher lactate values, so that traditional double threshold training would quickly lead to muscular issues.Correction: Baumann is an Austrian coach, she just has been living in Germany since forever
20 -
maybe single t works better wrote:
German coach Isabelle Baumann, whose most successful female athlete is Hanna Klein
(8:35/14:51) right now, recently stated in a podcast that double threshold training doesn't work well for female athletes. Her reasoning was that female athletes run proportionally faster (compared to men, I guess?) and with higher lactate values, so that traditional double threshold training would quickly lead to muscular issues.Could you expand on females running proportionally faster than men (in relation to what?).
40 -
cramberrys wrote:
maybe single t works better wrote:
German coach Isabelle Baumann, whose most successful female athlete is Hanna Klein
(8:35/14:51) right now, recently stated in a podcast that double threshold training doesn't work well for female athletes. Her reasoning was that female athletes run proportionally faster (compared to men, I guess?) and with higher lactate values, so that traditional double threshold training would quickly lead to muscular issues.Could you expand on females running proportionally faster than men (in relation to what?).
Don't really know myself, I basically cited what she said in German (she only said proportionally faster without specifying in relation to what). Maybe someone else can elaborate on what she might exactly mean.
31 -
maybe single t works better wrote:
cramberrys wrote:
Could you expand on females running proportionally faster than men (in relation to what?).
Don't really know myself, I basically cited what she said in German (she only said proportionally faster without specifying in relation to what). Maybe someone else can elaborate on what she might exactly mean.
That's a curious one alright. I would have thought the whole point would be that you use Lactate meters to ensure you don't go too fast. That is individual and i would have thought independent of gender.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.30 -
LarsL11 wrote:
Togher wrote:
Are we sure Grøvdal follows this system?..i always thought she was more of a *whisper it* valby type where her milage is relatively low but she does a tonne of XC skiing to make up the volume.
I'm ignorant on how XC skiiers break down their training in terms of threshold, VO2, Easy stuff etc but would be curious to know the crossover to the Bakken/Ingebrigtsen system
Also any chance if a link to the Ingrid Ingebrigtsen article? I was under the impression she was done with athletics. It'd be great if she hung in there
She cut down her volume a lot to avoid injuries, but trains more at threshold than before. More quality when she runs, then volume at skis (from an 2021 interview)What she cut down, seems to be, a lot of the easy running (40 minutes/10km is mentioned) which is then replaced with 1.5 hours roller skis.
I will search for more sources.
That's interesting, thanks. She went from about 100miles a week to about 60 + skiing and her coach says
"she actually trains more, more minutes at the threshold, because there hasn't been as much impact load, the trainer continues."
Maybe the poster who was talking about avoiding stress fractures is onto something
This post was edited 14 seconds after it was posted.30 -
Fast Forward to @ 19:55 of this interview so you can hear for yourself what Ingrid says about Double Threshold not working for her the same way it does for her brothers
30 -
Here’s something else I found while trying to research the topic further and gain knowledge on the subject. In a podcast from Feb 15th 2022 called “Some Work All Play” Episode 89 called: “BIG AEROBIC DEVELOPMENT” the podcasters say…
“but I think the big issue with double threshold workouts and this huge quantity of workouts, much like we're going to talk about with Nils van Der Poel later, is how do gender differences or even hormonal differences more generally, even amongst men or amongst women, impact how cortisol interrelates with adaptation in the system?
And I think that question is still out there.
And I think my question on cortisol, so cortisol impacts like glucose and how you utilize glucose and also like different mechanisms of glycogen storage. And women are known to have like high levels of like essentially like beneficial levels of lipid metabolism. And so I guess like the question is, is like, what's the offset there?
I have so many questions as it relates to cortisol, but we did mention talking last week that I don't think I don't use double threshold workouts for female athletes like ever, just because I don't think it's worth that risk reward balance. And that's just a big question I have. And I think as we go through these training topics, it truly is like an N of one situation.
And I do use double thresholds for some very[…]”
From Some Work, All Play: 89. BIG Aerobic Development, Gold Medalist Training, and Black Canyon 100k Recap, Feb 15, 2022
This material may be protected by copyright.This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.20 -
Celtic wrote:
Why does the Norwegian threshold training method not work on women as it does on the male runners? I saw an interview with Ingrid Ingebregtsen where she states that they are still working on tweaking the same system her brothers have used with success for over a decade, because it does not quite work for her the same way because she’s a female. And I definitely don’t see ANY female Norwegian runners atop any of the Diamond league standings or in the finals of any Olympic distance event. Wonder why it doesn’t work on women the same way it does for me.
This is just plain wrong. It just is weird for coaches like Gjert who have only coached men to adjust to female athletes. The training is not flawed it just needs to be adjusted. If you look at how many injuries Henrik and to a lesser degree Filip got you would understand it is just different.
10
What People Are Talking About On LetsRun
Hot Now
Of General Interest
-
BREAKING: Athing Mu running 800m in Gainesville on Friday at Holloway Pro Classic
-
Jakob chugs almost an entire 32-oz sports drink in 6 seconds during interview
-
I don't believe Jakob is clean. injured and runs 3:26.7 a bit later?
-
After Jakob's 3:26, Kerr's chance of winning in Paris has INCREASED
-
Can we talk about how crazy hard this Olympic marathon course is?