Is the “Summer of Speed” nonsense for Marathons?

Marathon training has changed at the elite level, but influencers are still selling old school methodology. The influencers are mostly hobby joggers themselves still clinging to half century old orthodoxy.

No

I don’t think Eliud and Kelvin (RIP) did a summer of speed. They probably sat on couches counting money in between big training blocks

I don't think there's physiologically a lot in common between some dude who's full time job it is to run 26.2 miles at better than 5 minute pace and some hobby jogger who sits in front of a computer for 9 hours a day and hopes to crack 4 hours in NYC this fall

When is your marathon? If early October, some speed work in Aug and July might make sense. For the most part, marathoners need to base train in early summer - use something like summer of malmo but make sure you get in long runs most weeks.

Stopped reading right there.

It might be that marathoners like Kipchoge, which have world medals in 5000 already have the speed needed, and that for them its more about having a perfect tuneup and a perfect race as its all about squeezing out seconds/minutes while "hobby joggers" might lack speed so much that progressing much in the marathon is unattainable.

This will ofcourse vary a lot from person til person, and how close their 1500, 3000, 5000 etc pace are to their marathon pace.

Yes. If you're trying to break 2:40 for a marathon and the best you can do is a 5:30 mile because you're slow, well, I've got some very bad news for you. You can run 160mpw and do all the double threshold you want. You will never be comfortable clicking of 6:00s for an extended period of time. You're just that much closer to your redline. The more elite you get, the narrower that gap gets between a pace you can sustain for a marathon and your redline.

No idea.

Average person looks at spring and fall marathons...breaks in winter for holidays. Summer is hot...want to spend less time base building, schools out, tracks more accessible. Lots of communities have 5/10ks in the summer. Track and some racing over summer, holidays/pto, , etc....schools back, clock running out, less track/speed, more long rungs for marathons.

Why am i bothered by these types of posts/questions?

It's me, hi, I'm the problem, it's me....or is it.

hobbyjoggers with dream goals of breaking 4 hours that take advice from running influencers are NOT us. don’t look at it through the lens of yourself. look at it like someone who only runs when the weather is nice and walks half of their “long run” that is over 50% of their weekly mileage.

training for a 5k or 10k over the summer will help these people as they really had no business training for a marathon anyway.

Look up the training if Frank Shorter, Steve Moneghetti, Rob de Castella, Lee Troop. These guys did high mileage and a lot of short, sharp sessions at 5k-10k pace.

I think it would've been helpful for OP to define hobbyjogger (that age-old debate - assume they meant anybody but Elite level Marathoners).

Regardless, I feel like this is the right answer for most of us.

I think “speed” does not have to touch actual Speedwork paces. more like 10k

I think doing 5kish pace work is enough “speed” training for the marathon. This can be done I think by jumping in weekend 5k +\- distance races. If no race you can do a 3k/5k pace workout instead and this can be fartleks where the terrain varies, hill repeats or flat. I would try to avoid the track if you can.

I legit thought at the begining that these influencers were doing some kind of silly 400m workouts or something like that. Training for 5k-10k and touching faster paces is not only unharmful but also quite beneficial for those runners who arent naturally "fast". You cant expect to run sub 2,20 in a marathon if you arent able to run faster than 3,00 for a km. Also continuously running marathon blocks isnt the healthiest for amateur runners, physically and mentally.

An interesting question OP. I'll say that it could be helpful depending on the type of runner you are. If you're an endurance based runner, getting in some speed isn't the worst idea. If your marathon PB lags behind your 5k PB then focusing on speed probably isn't going to help you close that gap. But most of us still aren't tapped out in terms of speed. Some of us just run marathons on a loop & wonder why good marathon training doesn't move the needle. You need to run fast to get faster. You don't need to plug in a speed block over the summer. A lot of the best marathoners touch on speed during their marathon build every few weeks.

I don't think the influencers are totally wrong but they live in a different universe. They go to the weekly group speed workout & do something like 6 x 400 & that helps them live a healthy/active lifestyle. That workout won't really help them run a fast 5k. & a lot of amateur marathoners stick a mid-week session like that into their training plans. That definitely doesn't prepare them for the demands of racing a marathon. Everyone has different goals & fits in what they can. It's better than nothing.

I run a lot of easy miles in the summer. Peak around 100-110 per week early-mid September. Most of my runs are in the 7-8' pace range with some M pace every other week in the long run, and some T pace or maybe even I pace here and there but once every 2 weeks maybe?

And then in the fall I'm in sub 1:15 half shape and Sub 2:40 full shape (mid 40s).

I don't have instagram but I will tell you that this 'training plan' will be more successful you will find than anything on social media.

It is nonsense for those who live in the SE portion of the US, Austin, Texas, or similar environments with hot and humid conditions. Or Vegas, Pheonix, and other locals with 100+ temps even if it is a "dry heat."

Reality is that doing high volume marathon focused strength work is too hard on the body for most people. Even for some elite and sub elite runners. In that sense spending part of the year getting away from that is a good thing.