4. Daniel Simmons 5. Hobbs Kessler 6. Drew Griffith 7. Dathan Ritzenden 8. German Fernandez 9. Edward Cheserek 10. Nico Young 11. Lukas Verzbicas 12. Jeff Nelson
What do people think about this? Should they be higher or do I have them too low?
HM (no order): Drew Griffith, Adam Goucher, Chris Solinsky, the Young brothers, Drew Hunter, Galen Rupp, Tim Danielson, the Sahlman brothers, Jeff Nelson, Edward Cheserek...could go on like this but you get the idea.
Simmons still has a shot to improve on this ranking, if Simmons can run sub-4:00 and a 2-mile record I would bump him up to 3rd-5th, if he really shatters the 2-mile (8:20ish) then perhaps 2nd. If he runs 13:1x at the Trials and/or makes top 8 then perhaps he would be my new GOAT (obviously Ryun made the team but it was a different era).
Griffith has it tough, he's a great runner and he had a great performance yesterday but I just don't see the argument for him over any one of these guys. Fernandez is the weakest link but if he's getting replaced I would favor Rupp, Danielson, Nelson, maybe even Cheserek over Griffith. FL champ with no national records to his name is just not enough, as good as his 8:31 closing in 4:06 was, it's probably worth at best 8:25 in a more even race, so a 4-second improvement over Verzbicas after 13 years...Verzbicas was also 2x FL champ, ran 3:59, ran sub-14:00, dominated everything his senior year, and even he is one of the last names on this list.
I'll also add that in a world where Young runs a full senior season he likely makes the top 10 but sadly I don't believe his resume as-is (7:56/13:40s/NXN champ) is good enough.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
1) Aaron Sahlman 2) Drew Griffith 3) Lex Young 4) Leo Young 5) Josh Methner 6) Parker Wolfe 7) Jerry Lindgren 8) Rudy Chapa 9) Daniel Simmons 10) Leo Daschbach
4. Daniel Simmons 5. Hobbs Kessler 6. Drew Griffith 7. Dathan Ritzenden 8. German Fernandez 9. Edward Cheserek 10. Nico Young 11. Lukas Verzbicas 12. Jeff Nelson
What do people think about this? Should they be higher or do I have them too low?
Verzbicas was much better than you're giving him credit for. Ritzenhein too, the greatest high school XC runner of all-time plus 13:44 on the track. Bump them both ahead of Simmons and Griffith. Also missing Liquori and Chapa, who probably deserve to be on this list ahead of Griffith and maybe Simmons.
1) Aaron Sahlman 2) Drew Griffith 3) Lex Young 4) Leo Young 5) Josh Methner 6) Parker Wolfe 7) Jerry Lindgren 8) Rudy Chapa 9) Daniel Simmons 10) Leo Daschbach
Bonus: 11) Ryan Deak
what.
Aaron ain't even the best HS runner ever named Sahlman
The only noteworthy Young performance was Lex's 5K
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
4. Daniel Simmons 5. Hobbs Kessler 6. Drew Griffith 7. Dathan Ritzenden 8. German Fernandez 9. Edward Cheserek 10. Nico Young 11. Lukas Verzbicas 12. Jeff Nelson
What do people think about this? Should they be higher or do I have them too low?
I thought this was obvious enough sarcasm, but I suppose Aaron Sahlman does have those lunatics out there around him so people could think this was serious.
I think Danny Simmons is definitely encroaching on top 10 if he isn’t already there just out of sheer times. Drew Griffith is also close, that 4:06 negative split and the buzz around it reminds me of the crazy stuff German Fernandez did at the CA state meet, but I haven’t quite seen enough out of him. If he runs another race and drops like a 3:56 mile or equivalent he probably has a case.
HM (no order): Drew Griffith, Adam Goucher, Chris Solinsky, the Young brothers, Drew Hunter, Galen Rupp, Tim Danielson, the Sahlman brothers, Jeff Nelson, Edward Cheserek...could go on like this but you get the idea.
Simmons still has a shot to improve on this ranking, if Simmons can run sub-4:00 and a 2-mile record I would bump him up to 3rd-5th, if he really shatters the 2-mile (8:20ish) then perhaps 2nd. If he runs 13:1x at the Trials and/or makes top 8 then perhaps he would be my new GOAT (obviously Ryun made the team but it was a different era).
Griffith has it tough, he's a great runner and he had a great performance yesterday but I just don't see the argument for him over any one of these guys. Fernandez is the weakest link but if he's getting replaced I would favor Rupp, Danielson, Nelson, maybe even Cheserek over Griffith. FL champ with no national records to his name is just not enough, as good as his 8:31 closing in 4:06 was, it's probably worth at best 8:25 in a more even race, so a 4-second improvement over Verzbicas after 13 years...Verzbicas was also 2x FL champ, ran 3:59, ran sub-14:00, dominated everything his senior year, and even he is one of the last names on this list.
I'll also add that in a world where Young runs a full senior season he likely makes the top 10 but sadly I don't believe his resume as-is (7:56/13:40s/NXN champ) is good enough.
Griffith and Simmons deserve far better than this. You know who Simmons beat when he ran 13:25? Futsum Zienasellassie. Junior year Futsum was senior Lukas Verbicas big rival at footlocker. For Simmons to beat Futsum 13 years later, and have him under Lukas is just wrong.
HM (no order): Drew Griffith, Adam Goucher, Chris Solinsky, the Young brothers, Drew Hunter, Galen Rupp, Tim Danielson, the Sahlman brothers, Jeff Nelson, Edward Cheserek...could go on like this but you get the idea.
Simmons still has a shot to improve on this ranking, if Simmons can run sub-4:00 and a 2-mile record I would bump him up to 3rd-5th, if he really shatters the 2-mile (8:20ish) then perhaps 2nd. If he runs 13:1x at the Trials and/or makes top 8 then perhaps he would be my new GOAT (obviously Ryun made the team but it was a different era).
Griffith has it tough, he's a great runner and he had a great performance yesterday but I just don't see the argument for him over any one of these guys. Fernandez is the weakest link but if he's getting replaced I would favor Rupp, Danielson, Nelson, maybe even Cheserek over Griffith. FL champ with no national records to his name is just not enough, as good as his 8:31 closing in 4:06 was, it's probably worth at best 8:25 in a more even race, so a 4-second improvement over Verzbicas after 13 years...Verzbicas was also 2x FL champ, ran 3:59, ran sub-14:00, dominated everything his senior year, and even he is one of the last names on this list.
I'll also add that in a world where Young runs a full senior season he likely makes the top 10 but sadly I don't believe his resume as-is (7:56/13:40s/NXN champ) is good enough.
Griffith and Simmons deserve far better than this. You know who Simmons beat when he ran 13:25? Futsum Zienasellassie. Junior year Futsum was senior Lukas Verbicas big rival at footlocker. For Simmons to beat Futsum 13 years later, and have him under Lukas is just wrong.
Futsum Zienasellassie's career arc has nothing to do with the relative ability of Daniel Simmons and Lukas Verzbicas. Verzbicas was a 2x FL champion, and dominated both times, AND he won NXN on top of it all. He was faster over 1-mile and 2-mile than Simmons, in an era with far slower times across the board (certainly no Dragonflys then).
Simmons has the opportunity to turn the tables, as his high school career is not quite over. But you are doing a serious disservice to Verzbicas with this post. And I won't even mention Griffith, except to say that maybe you could throw him in over German just because German didn't get it done at FL.
Lukas has to be above Nico. Both had two national xc crowns. Lukas ran sub-4 and 8:29. Nico had a good deal of his outdoor track season nixed but ran 7:56.97/13:50, so Verzbicas had the better high school career. Ritz took third in World Junior xc as a senior, along with his 8:41 and 13:44 5000m, plus two national xc titles, so he ranks ahead of Kessler with no xc anything, though 3:34/8:39 are pretty great. German actually ran faster on the track than Ritz both at 1600 and 3200 and his xc course record at Mt. Sac has stood the test of time but he had no national xc titles because of injury. Simmons belongs high for his 13:25 but the 2M record would help, as he has no xc national title. Griffith needs a record and can get the 2M record.