Shoe deniers "there's no proof the shoes work" - Also shoe deniers "here's $200, shoes please"

Who are you talking about? I genuinely don't know anyone who says that Vaporflies etc. aren't great shoes that help performance for a lot of runners. That would be a dumb thing to say.

But it's also dumb to say that every fast performance or new record is just the result of shoes, or drugs, or a secret training method. Only simpletons think they can reduce extraordinary events or broad phenomena to a single cause.

When you go in to try on a pair of shoes, do you run an all out mile and pick the fastest one? No, you slip them on and make sure they feel comfortable and right. The new spikes are undeniably more comfortable. But do they somehow make you run faster? No they don't, at least not significantly enough to care. And I would say a few seconds per mile would be significant, but that hasn't happened. Ya there are a lot more 'pretty fast' people, but to be the best has kept a pretty consistent trend over the decades, including the five track seasons since 'super spikes' have come out. There are just a lot more people doing good training the past several years than 20 years ago.

Get real. People aren’t plopping down $200 for shoes just because they’re comfortable.

Hobby racers always wear what the elites are wearing, and the elites wear whatever shoe their sponsor wants to sell. That's why "everyone" is racing in those things, except it's not everyone, that's just a cognitive bias on your part

Well the new records are "just shoes" then the same people refuse to admit the old records were all drugs. By old records I mean all the really long lasting, no one touching womens records. As well as El Guerrouj on the mens side maybe?

I’ve been running in mostly Adidas Adios for the last 10 years or so. My rationale has been that I can train much harder before I get help from super shoes.

However, I just picked up a pair Vaporfly 3 in Tokyo since I didn’t want to pack my used running shoes (and they are cheaper and tax free here - $207 vs $287 with tax in my city).

My first run in, and I was amazed at how much spring and cushion they have. I haven’t tried racing all out, but I did 2 miles at marathon pace and it felt pretty easy. I was so impressed that I bought another pair yesterday to keep fresh for racing.

Looking at the shoes of runners at the races that I go, I would say 10% are in the latest supershoe, another 10% in some older model supershoe and the rest are mix of olde racing flats, daily trainers, walking shoes etc.

I race in Saucony Sinister because I found them on 60% off and I'm not fast enough to get the benefit of a plated shoe. Sinister feels super light and snappy.

I’m not sure how much faster they are vs racing flats, but ultimately the ‘super’ shoes I race in seem to provide light weight of flats and comfort similar to trainers.

I feel like I was faster in a pair of racing flats, but they leave my calves trashed after a 10k. Super shoes seem about the same or a tiny bit slower, but my recovery time is way less. Had plantar fasciitis for years that flared up after races and have pretty much eliminated it. Completely worth $200 to walk comfortably.

Hey....HEY!!! I was wearing supershoes when I said Vladimir Putin helped Trump get elected in 2016, and again in 2020 when I said the election was stolen. For the purposes of your census, make sure you count me three times, OK? I'm sick of only being counted once...

I don't think shoes have anything to do with it...

It's all in your running form.

I saw a young woman this morning that was out running and it looked like she was hunched over like she was going to fall flat on her face. I also looked closely at her legs, and man, I could just feel my knees killing me! But she had nice shoes on that she was also dragging as she ran. Sounded like someone sanding a board......

Super shoe and wave light trurthers will forever fail at the sport of running and life. The reality of life is that people will continue getting better at training over time as they learn from the mistakes of their peers and the people who came before them. As long as the sport of running is competitive those who learn from their mistakes and the mistakes of others will only get better.

Pretty poor strawman. No one reasonable argues that the shoes don't work. It's how much effect they have which is debated, and people like you who exaggerate saying they're worth 10 seconds per mile or some other ridiculous claim is what makes you not taken seriously.