Ya'll say it's the proliferation of training info, nutritional enhancements, increased level of interest in sports, and so on.
So based on this, you'd expect to see a similar level of improvement in Field Events and other endurance sports (say from 2020 to 2024-Present Day). Can you guys back this up with data, or should we conclude that Super Shoes have Transformed what it means to run a 4:00 mile or a 13:00 5k (From ELITE to Emerging-Sub-Elite).
1) 4:00 mile and 13:00 5k are vastly different in terms of being sub-elite versus elite.
2) Are you aware of what's going on in shot put and discus? There are 3–4 men capable of throwing 23m in Paris. A 21 year old broke the oldest record in men's track & field. Must be the super shoes right?
Isn't Mondo breaking the pole vault WR every other weekend?
The science is clear on super shoes but I think the rhetoric is overblown. Maybe a sub-4:05 mile is now 4-flat but the way people talk you'd think shoes are getting 4:20 milers to sub-4. Elite marathoners are getting back 60-90s. Some athletes respond slightly better to the shoes. So I don't think every recap needs to include more dialogue about super shoes that isn't based in science & does ignore other factors that contribute to fast times. I think it's wild to talk about sub-4 collegiate milers without pointing out that everyone is going to BU to run on a fast track with pacers. T&F used to be regional. It's not anymore. Stuff like that helps too -- everyone coming together to chase a certain barrier. Throw shoes into the mix & people who might've just missed are going to just get it.
Give them Alan Webb's trainers and spikes for a year and they will lose more than 5 seconds per mile on average because several will be injured and the rest will run much slower.
Ya'll say it's the proliferation of training info, nutritional enhancements, increased level of interest in sports, and so on.
So based on this, you'd expect to see a similar level of improvement in Field Events and other endurance sports (say from 2020 to 2024-Present Day). Can you guys back this up with data, or should we conclude that Super Shoes have Transformed what it means to run a 4:00 mile or a 13:00 5k (From ELITE to Emerging-Sub-Elite).
Thoughts? Please advise with data to support.
I've been running for 52 years. I think it's a combination of all of the above. The shoes are huge- Carbon and Nylon plated help you run faster which (obviously) helps you race faster.
There is so much more out there on diet and recovery. I remember reading that Bill Rogers was so hungry that he ate mayonnaise by the spoonful. I don't think elites are doing that now.
I can tell you that at my modest 70 mpw we ate anything we could get our hands on- nutrition, recovery were not part of the solution- just shoveling food down was.
It seems that training was less scientific- we ran hard workouts and then recovery runs.
I believe that super shoes help, but are way over hyped.
Other endurance sports are seeing records broken. Swimming, cycling, and triathlon all have progressed significantly. Whether due to tech, drugs, or other training methods, people are doing things better than ever before.
Ya'll say it's the proliferation of training info, nutritional enhancements, increased level of interest in sports, and so on.
So based on this, you'd expect to see a similar level of improvement in Field Events and other endurance sports (say from 2020 to 2024-Present Day). Can you guys back this up with data, or should we conclude that Super Shoes have Transformed what it means to run a 4:00 mile or a 13:00 5k (From ELITE to Emerging-Sub-Elite).
Thoughts? Please advise with data to support.
No data is needed. These adjustments turn runners like Bekele and Komen into supermen.
Ya'll say it's the proliferation of training info, nutritional enhancements, increased level of interest in sports, and so on.
So based on this, you'd expect to see a similar level of improvement in Field Events and other endurance sports (say from 2020 to 2024-Present Day). Can you guys back this up with data, or should we conclude that Super Shoes have Transformed what it means to run a 4:00 mile or a 13:00 5k (From ELITE to Emerging-Sub-Elite).
Thoughts? Please advise with data to support.
I've been running for 52 years. I think it's a combination of all of the above. The shoes are huge- Carbon and Nylon plated help you run faster which (obviously) helps you race faster.
There is so much more out there on diet and recovery. I remember reading that Bill Rogers was so hungry that he ate mayonnaise by the spoonful. I don't think elites are doing that now.
I can tell you that at my modest 70 mpw we ate anything we could get our hands on- nutrition, recovery were not part of the solution- just shoveling food down was.
It seems that training was less scientific- we ran hard workouts and then recovery runs.
Human beings have been eating, sleeping and resting beginning with the cavemen. They eat when they’re hungry, sleep when they get sleepy and rest when they’re tired.
I've been running for 52 years. I think it's a combination of all of the above. The shoes are huge- Carbon and Nylon plated help you run faster which (obviously) helps you race faster.
There is so much more out there on diet and recovery. I remember reading that Bill Rogers was so hungry that he ate mayonnaise by the spoonful. I don't think elites are doing that now.
I can tell you that at my modest 70 mpw we ate anything we could get our hands on- nutrition, recovery were not part of the solution- just shoveling food down was.
It seems that training was less scientific- we ran hard workouts and then recovery runs.
Human beings have been eating, sleeping and resting beginning with the cavemen. They eat when they’re hungry, sleep when they get sleepy and rest when they’re tired.
It's WHAT they eat that's different. I look back to people thinking that steak and eggs was the breakfast of champions. Liver was supposed to be so healthy and make you so strong.
Hot dogs were the poor athletes meal.
There really is a difference- we know so much more about training and nutrition.
And how many of the top distance runners are working out twice a day and working 8 hours in between workouts? That's better recovery young man.
Human beings have been eating, sleeping and resting beginning with the cavemen. They eat when they’re hungry, sleep when they get sleepy and rest when they’re tired.
It's WHAT they eat that's different. I look back to people thinking that steak and eggs was the breakfast of champions. Liver was supposed to be so healthy and make you so strong.
Hot dogs were the poor athletes meal.
There really is a difference- we know so much more about training and nutrition.
And how many of the top distance runners are working out twice a day and working 8 hours in between workouts? That's better recovery young man.
Steak and eggs and are great sources for protein and adding fruit, vegetables and carbs, will get the job done. Except for at baseball games, people rarely eat hot dogs. If what you say is true, you would think it would have increased life expectancies.
Having extra time for naps and playing video games doesn’t make any difference.
It's really interesting to see/hear/read the takes on how super shoes protect your feet and legs more than less-advanced trainers would do, allowing you to train harder & recover faster, rather than just shaving seconds off of a race result via better cushioning & ergonomic & power-transfer factors. If you can go out and run longer, harder workouts more frequently because you've got a pair of AlphaFly 3s or whatever to train in, versus what you'd be able to do in bang-average $120-150 non-plated trainers, you'll end up in slightly better shape at the start line. It's the same principle as doping during training and then cleaning up before a race; the hay's in the barn at that point, and the ability to train harder is what makes the difference over however many miles you're racing. TdF cyclists have totally used piles of banned substances and re-injected stored blood etc during the race itself, but if they weren't using drugs and substances to train harder and recover better during their months of training, all the dope in the world probably couldn't save them during the race itself.
My take: For 99.9% of advanced runners, especially half- and marathon runners, the slight time gain from super shoes during a race is probably nothing compared to the increased training intensity and/or volume they were able to log during their buildup thanks to choice of shoe. And for runners with naturally-high recovery abilities, or really strong feet & lower legs, it might matter way less to have super shoes during training vs someone with serious strength deficits who can only nail 100% of their prescribed workouts because they have some ZoomFlys. The only people really benefiting from racing in super shoes are probably the sub-2:20 folks who need the extra 1-3 seconds per mile to get on the podium.
It's WHAT they eat that's different. I look back to people thinking that steak and eggs was the breakfast of champions. Liver was supposed to be so healthy and make you so strong.
Hot dogs were the poor athletes meal.
There really is a difference- we know so much more about training and nutrition.
And how many of the top distance runners are working out twice a day and working 8 hours in between workouts? That's better recovery young man.
Steak and eggs and are great sources for protein and adding fruit, vegetables and carbs, will get the job done. Except for at baseball games, people rarely eat hot dogs. If what you say is true, you would think it would have increased life expectancies.
Having extra time for naps and playing video games doesn’t make any difference.
I’m older than you think.
You don't seem to be using the benefit of your years or maybe you floated through the 70's in a haze. I don't know. But training knowledge has changed, knowledge about fueling has changed, recovery everything.
You can keep countering with garbage, it only serves to detract from an interesting conversation among intelligent people.
Steak and eggs and are great sources for protein and adding fruit, vegetables and carbs, will get the job done. Except for at baseball games, people rarely eat hot dogs. If what you say is true, you would think it would have increased life expectancies.
Having extra time for naps and playing video games doesn’t make any difference.
I’m older than you think.
You don't seem to be using the benefit of your years or maybe you floated through the 70's in a haze. I don't know. But training knowledge has changed, knowledge about fueling has changed, recovery everything.
You can keep countering with garbage, it only serves to detract from an interesting conversation among intelligent people.
I always see these statements. Yet never any follow up, explaining how. So please explain
1. How is training different - provide specifics
2. How is fueling different - provide specifics
3. How is recovery different - provide specifics
The truth is, those things haven't changed significantly.
Isn't Mondo breaking the pole vault WR every other weekend?
The science is clear on super shoes but I think the rhetoric is overblown. Maybe a sub-4:05 mile is now 4-flat but the way people talk you'd think shoes are getting 4:20 milers to sub-4. Elite marathoners are getting back 60-90s. Some athletes respond slightly better to the shoes. So I don't think every recap needs to include more dialogue about super shoes that isn't based in science & does ignore other factors that contribute to fast times. I think it's wild to talk about sub-4 collegiate milers without pointing out that everyone is going to BU to run on a fast track with pacers. T&F used to be regional. It's not anymore. Stuff like that helps too -- everyone coming together to chase a certain barrier. Throw shoes into the mix & people who might've just missed are going to just get it.
Likely that shoes help a 4:04 to sub 4. I don’t think anyone thinks that the shoes are worth 20 seconds in a mile. That said, the shoes are definitely worth 20-30 seconds for a 29:00 10000m runner. So, you have 28:30 runners that are essentially 29:00 runners w/o the shoes. Think what you want, but it negates times from the past. And don’t try and get around the issue by comparing to modern tracks. When modern tracks emerged back in the late 60s, they had zero effect on times.
All this talk of better nutrition and whatnot--what are they actually doing different? I know for training there's a whole trend towards threshold running and not overdoing it, but i haven't heard much on new nutrition science. Surely the reason Jakob runs well is not because he eats a Nutella sandwich everyday
All this talk of better nutrition and whatnot--what are they actually doing different? I know for training there's a whole trend towards threshold running and not overdoing it, but i haven't heard much on new nutrition science. Surely the reason Jakob runs well is not because he eats a Nutella sandwich everyday
There is nothing runners are eating now that they weren’t eating from 2010-2020. Funny thing is, times are vastly improved now. Started around 2021 when new spikes were released.