ran a 2;40:11 yday, in stormy conditions I am planning to focus on middle distances with some track races over the summer.
However i wanna go for 2:30 in london (April 2025) was wondering what everyone thinks regarding when should I switch back to marathon focus to have a good shot at achieving this . Would the new year be fine or nov/December
It's a big jump from 2:40 to 2:30. Depends on how bad conditions were -- stormy can still mean cool. Depends on short distance PBs. Can you run 15:30 for 5k & 32-mid for 10k? If you run good mileage you might have a chance with a 1:12/1:13 half. Might need something closer to 1:10.
Makes sense to train the shorter distances if you're not there yet. 3-4 months before London get into your marathon block. If endurance is the problem then I would train you differently. More threshold work & target a faster half. Still might be a good goal for the fall.
Yeah- condtions were heavy rain + 20kmh winds but this was mostly managed by a good group
more a high 33 10km runner currently - so will hope to get this down -
My heart rate and effort levels felt very controlled during this race and throughout the majority of my sessions. I feel as if my biggest weakness in the marathon is leg strength . Pace dropped in the last 3km of this race and have noticed similar effects in training sessions such as 3 X 10km.
Apart from gym and more mileage is there anything that can help reduce this , ie more speed endurance stuff instead of threshold?
3x10k is a huge session. I think you're on the right track to develop leg strength by getting in a little more mileage + healthy dose of threshold work. Idk how many sessions you did with decent chunks @ MP but getting in a good # of runs in the 30k-36k range w./ bouts at MP will help. I like sessions where you're practicing running MP later in the run. Something like 5k up/20k @ MP/5k cool is good but you're running MP from miles 3-15. Getting efficient at goal pace but not practicing running hard past 25k. Would front load the warm up for those sessions. 8k up/20k @ MP/2k cool. Alternating k's or mile's at GP is great because you can get past 30k and still run at goal pace without feeling completely cooked.
Sometimes the marathon is about your previous couple years of training. The more builds you get through the more that leg strength will improve.
3x10k is a huge session. I think you're on the right track to develop leg strength by getting in a little more mileage + healthy dose of threshold work. Idk how many sessions you did with decent chunks @ MP but getting in a good # of runs in the 30k-36k range w./ bouts at MP will help. I like sessions where you're practicing running MP later in the run. Something like 5k up/20k @ MP/5k cool is good but you're running MP from miles 3-15. Getting efficient at goal pace but not practicing running hard past 25k. Would front load the warm up for those sessions. 8k up/20k @ MP/2k cool. Alternating k's or mile's at GP is great because you can get past 30k and still run at goal pace without feeling completely cooked.
Sometimes the marathon is about your previous couple years of training. The more builds you get through the more that leg strength will improve.
Always appreciate your training advices too.
What would be your recommended marathon plan/book for someone hoping to run under 2:30? (M39 / 2:34 / 1:12 flat in my last two races)
I used the advanced plan of Higher Running (Sage) on a high mileage schedule for my last build up (100 mpw+ average/12 weeks up to 110).
Pfitz, Daniel's 2Q and Hanson seem to be the ones that come up a lot.
3x10k is a huge session. I think you're on the right track to develop leg strength by getting in a little more mileage + healthy dose of threshold work. Idk how many sessions you did with decent chunks @ MP but getting in a good # of runs in the 30k-36k range w./ bouts at MP will help. I like sessions where you're practicing running MP later in the run. Something like 5k up/20k @ MP/5k cool is good but you're running MP from miles 3-15. Getting efficient at goal pace but not practicing running hard past 25k. Would front load the warm up for those sessions. 8k up/20k @ MP/2k cool. Alternating k's or mile's at GP is great because you can get past 30k and still run at goal pace without feeling completely cooked.
Sometimes the marathon is about your previous couple years of training. The more builds you get through the more that leg strength will improve.
Always appreciate your training advices too.
What would be your recommended marathon plan/book for someone hoping to run under 2:30? (M39 / 2:34 / 1:12 flat in my last two races)
I used the advanced plan of Higher Running (Sage) on a high mileage schedule for my last build up (100 mpw+ average/12 weeks up to 110).
Pfitz, Daniel's 2Q and Hanson seem to be the ones that come up a lot.
Thanks
Anyone?
I'd like to try a different approach for this build up. Perhaps one that emphasizes more work at MGP and slightly faster.
You can make some improvement in the marathon off of the 1:12-flat. I like Pfitz for structure. Mid-week threshold workouts + medium long runs can get any runner strong (help build leg strength). Good mileage on the weekends & the progression of tempos @ GMP in the long runs is a staple for me. I like to build out a Pfitz/NAZ Elite type hybrid plan. Pfitz for structure. NAZ Elite (Hansons similar/interchangeable, obviously Ben came from there) for marathon specific long runs. I think someone targeting 2:30 can handle some more quality in the long run than what Pfitz outlines. I also structure the last 2 weeks a little differently. I don't like injecting speed workouts towards the end of the build that the body hasn't been doing during the build. Better to add in a couple of marathon "speed" workouts (volume 10k workouts) for turnover into the build (maybe 2 workouts of 20x400m @ 10k w./ 30-45s rest @ 4 & 8 weeks of a 12 week build, something like that) & then stick to workouts @ GMP >>> threshold in the last couple of weeks. 2 weeks out I do a 2 hour long run (optional 2 x 4-6 miles @ GMP depending on what you feel like you need). 10-11 days out = 6 mile to 12k progression GMP >>> T. 12-14 ez 1 week out. 1 session race week whatever makes you feel good within reason: 4x1200 @ T, 5x1k @ T, 5k-6k @ GMP, 2-4 miles @ GMP + 800 faster, etc. Not opposed to 2 short workout: 3x1200 @ T + 2 @ GMP + 800 faster.
You can make some improvement in the marathon off of the 1:12-flat. I like Pfitz for structure. Mid-week threshold workouts + medium long runs can get any runner strong (help build leg strength). Good mileage on the weekends & the progression of tempos @ GMP in the long runs is a staple for me. I like to build out a Pfitz/NAZ Elite type hybrid plan. Pfitz for structure. NAZ Elite (Hansons similar/interchangeable, obviously Ben came from there) for marathon specific long runs. I think someone targeting 2:30 can handle some more quality in the long run than what Pfitz outlines. I also structure the last 2 weeks a little differently. I don't like injecting speed workouts towards the end of the build that the body hasn't been doing during the build. Better to add in a couple of marathon "speed" workouts (volume 10k workouts) for turnover into the build (maybe 2 workouts of 20x400m @ 10k w./ 30-45s rest @ 4 & 8 weeks of a 12 week build, something like that) & then stick to workouts @ GMP >>> threshold in the last couple of weeks. 2 weeks out I do a 2 hour long run (optional 2 x 4-6 miles @ GMP depending on what you feel like you need). 10-11 days out = 6 mile to 12k progression GMP >>> T. 12-14 ez 1 week out. 1 session race week whatever makes you feel good within reason: 4x1200 @ T, 5x1k @ T, 5k-6k @ GMP, 2-4 miles @ GMP + 800 faster, etc. Not opposed to 2 short workout: 3x1200 @ T + 2 @ GMP + 800 faster.
Thank you, that helps a lot. I'll definitely check Pfitz and NAZ Elite.
You can make some improvement in the marathon off of the 1:12-flat. I like Pfitz for structure. Mid-week threshold workouts + medium long runs can get any runner strong (help build leg strength). Good mileage on the weekends & the progression of tempos @ GMP in the long runs is a staple for me. I like to build out a Pfitz/NAZ Elite type hybrid plan. Pfitz for structure. NAZ Elite (Hansons similar/interchangeable, obviously Ben came from there) for marathon specific long runs. I think someone targeting 2:30 can handle some more quality in the long run than what Pfitz outlines. I also structure the last 2 weeks a little differently. I don't like injecting speed workouts towards the end of the build that the body hasn't been doing during the build. Better to add in a couple of marathon "speed" workouts (volume 10k workouts) for turnover into the build (maybe 2 workouts of 20x400m @ 10k w./ 30-45s rest @ 4 & 8 weeks of a 12 week build, something like that) & then stick to workouts @ GMP >>> threshold in the last couple of weeks. 2 weeks out I do a 2 hour long run (optional 2 x 4-6 miles @ GMP depending on what you feel like you need). 10-11 days out = 6 mile to 12k progression GMP >>> T. 12-14 ez 1 week out. 1 session race week whatever makes you feel good within reason: 4x1200 @ T, 5x1k @ T, 5k-6k @ GMP, 2-4 miles @ GMP + 800 faster, etc. Not opposed to 2 short workout: 3x1200 @ T + 2 @ GMP + 800 faster.
Sub2:30hopeful here.
I'm curious to know how you work on your MGP during base training. Need some inspiration here. I usually include a lot of steady pace (MP + 20-25 per k). Sometimes while progressing towards MGP.
I also try to keep some faster stuff like 200s and 300s every other week.
Mile on mile off or K on/off seems like a good idea.
Any suggestions?
Coming off half marathon training and racing a 10k next weekend, MGP feels somewhat "easy" and I'd like to build from that.
If you're running an out and back course go out at a comfortable Pace come back at a faster pace this can be anywhere from 5 miles out 5 mi back to 10 mi out 10 mi back
Another way is every 2 mi has to be faster than the two miles before. I used to do a 4-mile loop each one of my four Mile loops were faster warm up pace, comfortable pace, mara- thon pace, finally 1/2 marathon pace