Double Threshold de-training?

Training Advice/Discussion

1 month ago 05/21/2024 5:00am EDT

If an athlete exclusively trains via double threshold sessions every single week for an extended period, is the eventual outcome for them to get less fit?

There's a guy at a club near me who has been doing double threshold sessions* (with lactate monitor etc) every week for 2+ years and while he has had one good marathon result in that time, generally speaking all his other performances have completely fallen away + nowadays his threshold pace seems to be even slower than it used to be

*eg 10K @ LT in the morning & ~10x1K @ the same pace, in the evening

I'm not that clued in, so presuming he was working in the right zones and taking the right readings originally - is it possible after over time that the consistent lack of work in the higher zones, is leading to an eventual drop in fitness? I also thought the second session should be a bit quicker paced

(Sorry for making another double threshold thread)

1 month ago 05/21/2024 5:41am EDT

re: AnonAtWork

Yes, that's why everyone is doing it - to get less fit. It's definitely not because your one hobby jogger friend messed up his training.

1 month ago 05/21/2024 5:54am EDT

re: AnonAtWork

You do one session each week with higher lactate/vo2max training (hills on saturdays) in the norwegian method.

1 month ago 05/21/2024 6:11am EDT

re: AnonAtWork

AnonAtWork wrote:
*eg 10K @ LT in the morning & ~10x1K @ the same pace, in the evening

Yeah, that's not how the Ingebrigtsens or other elite Scandinavian runners do it.

To start with, they do intervals in the morning (Marius Bakken has gone into great detail on why this is the case) at LT1.

And they typically do 25 x 400m repeats in the evening - at around 10k pace, which produces a lactate reading just below LT2.

And finally, as others have mentioned, they will do 2 x 10 x 200m hill repeats - once a week, in order to get a vo2 max stimulus.

Your friend hasn't addressed these 3 specific energy systems that are addressed in the Norwegian model, but rather, has just focussed on LT1.

1 month ago 05/21/2024 9:26am EDT

re: Man Moth

Man Moth wrote:
AnonAtWork wrote:
*eg 10K @ LT in the morning & ~10x1K @ the same pace, in the evening
Yeah, that's not how the Ingebrigtsens or other elite Scandinavian runners do it.
To start with, they do intervals in the morning (Marius Bakken has gone into great detail on why this is the case) at LT1.
And they typically do 25 x 400m repeats in the evening - at around 10k pace, which produces a lactate reading just below LT2.
And finally, as others have mentioned, they will do 2 x 10 x 200m hill repeats - once a week, in order to get a vo2 max stimulus.
Your friend hasn't addressed these 3 specific energy systems that are addressed in the Norwegian model, but rather, has just focussed on LT1.

You also need to remember that this is only their base training.

1 month ago 05/21/2024 9:37am EDT

re: AnonAtWork

AnonAtWork wrote:
the same pace

I see the issue here.

1 month ago 05/21/2024 10:28am EDT

re: AnonAtWork

AnonAtWork wrote:
If an athlete exclusively trains via double threshold sessions every single week for an extended period, is the eventual outcome for them to get less fit?
There's a guy at a club near me who has been doing double threshold sessions* (with lactate monitor etc) every week for 2+ years and while he has had one good marathon result in that time, generally speaking all his other performances have completely fallen away + nowadays his threshold pace seems to be even slower than it used to be
*eg 10K @ LT in the morning & ~10x1K @ the same pace, in the evening
I'm not that clued in, so presuming he was working in the right zones and taking the right readings originally - is it possible after over time that the consistent lack of work in the higher zones, is leading to an eventual drop in fitness? I also thought the second session should be a bit quicker paced
(Sorry for making another double threshold thread)

They aren't less fit, they're worn out.

Here's a secret: you don't have to do double threshold every week. You can do it every three weeks if you'd like.

1 month ago 05/28/2024 12:58pm EDT

re: AnonAtWork

AnonAtWork wrote:
If an athlete exclusively trains via double threshold sessions every single week for an extended period, is the eventual outcome for them to get less fit?
There's a guy at a club near me who has been doing double threshold sessions* (with lactate monitor etc) every week for 2+ years and while he has had one good marathon result in that time, generally speaking all his other performances have completely fallen away + nowadays his threshold pace seems to be even slower than it used to be
*eg 10K @ LT in the morning & ~10x1K @ the same pace, in the evening
I'm not that clued in, so presuming he was working in the right zones and taking the right readings originally - is it possible after over time that the consistent lack of work in the higher zones, is leading to an eventual drop in fitness? I also thought the second session should be a bit quicker paced
(Sorry for making another double threshold thread)

Threshold isnt designed for the marathon. You should do more aerobic work for marathoners.

1 month ago 05/28/2024 1:36pm EDT

re: yay marxism

yay marxism wrote:
AnonAtWork wrote:
If an athlete exclusively trains via double threshold sessions every single week for an extended period, is the eventual outcome for them to get less fit?
There's a guy at a club near me who has been doing double threshold sessions* (with lactate monitor etc) every week for 2+ years and while he has had one good marathon result in that time, generally speaking all his other performances have completely fallen away + nowadays his threshold pace seems to be even slower than it used to be
*eg 10K @ LT in the morning & ~10x1K @ the same pace, in the evening
I'm not that clued in, so presuming he was working in the right zones and taking the right readings originally - is it possible after over time that the consistent lack of work in the higher zones, is leading to an eventual drop in fitness? I also thought the second session should be a bit quicker paced
(Sorry for making another double threshold thread)
Threshold isnt designed for the marathon. You should do more aerobic work for marathoners.

Threshold work isn't aerobic?

1 month ago 06/10/2024 11:06am EDT

re: Disciple

Disciple wrote:
yay marxism wrote:
Threshold isnt designed for the marathon. You should do more aerobic work for marathoners.
Threshold work isn't aerobic?

I was under the impression it was better for half marathon and shorter.

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