I’m very interested in the growing cross training phenomenon, especially as it relates to Parker Valby’s success with the elliptical and arc trainer. Since the other threads end up nuked by the same few idiots arguing about doping, I would love for this thread to just stay on topic and hear about any studies or articles that support X Training, and personal experiences let’s runners have had with it, either while injured or as a supplement to regular run training. Can it be done?
I’ll start..I currently have a femoral stress fracture and have been cross training up to 10 hours/week primarily on the elliptical and sometimes stationary bike. I have about 6 more weeks until I can run but am happy to update with my results then. Given how brittle I am, I do plan to run lower mileage with heavy cross training once I’m healthy. How has this approach gone for others?
I’ll start..I currently have a femoral stress fracture and have been cross training up to 10 hours/week primarily on the elliptical and sometimes stationary bike. I have about 6 more weeks until I can run but am happy to update with my results then. Given how brittle I am, I do plan to run lower mileage with heavy cross training once I’m healthy. How has this approach gone for others?
The elliptical has to be one of the greatest inventions ever for runners. I myself find I can maintain fitness very well using elliptical workouts, and it definitely helps with returning to running. I had an autoimmune disease at one point and had to take two years off of running till I was diagnosed/medicated, using walking and the elliptical to stay in shape. When I finally eased back into running and ran a road 5k for fun, I was very surprised to only be about a minute off of what I was running before the long layoff. I think it's definitely worth integrating into training if you're a more fragile runner, you need running to get better at running but the elliptical does wonders at maintaining fitness
This year, I was out with a knee injury from mid January to early April. For most of this time, I could not even x train. However, right around the end of March, I could start doing elliptical workouts. I did high intensity workouts most days for a few weeks and watched my heart rate (both during activity and resting) drop drastically. I started running on April 8th and won my conference steeplechase with a 10 second less than 3 weeks later. Almost all this fitness was from the elliptical; in a month, I did around 15 workouts with around 30 minutes of intensity each (in contrast to my 3 running workouts leading up to my race).
It's incredible what x training can do when you put the work in. Without fatiguing my muscles, I could spend 40 minutes with my HR above 180. The aerobic fitness gains are rapid when you do this repeatedly.
It’s probably true that high mileage is the best way to train overall, but there doesn’t seem to be many people on the elite level who have tried a hybrid approach. Would 60 miles/week with intense elliptical/arc training yield the same results as 100/week? I’m not so sure it can’t, especially given the insanely high injury rates in running. PV is the obvious example but I’ll be curious to see if more follow suit given her success.
The Elliptical is NOT the Arc Trainer, it’s just NOT.
Valby uses the Arc Trainer, not the Elliptical. Do you understand the difference?
I do understand that yes. Not everyone has access to an arc trainer while almost anyone can jump on an elliptical. I think it’s a fair comparison point.
*************** ”So a lot of people have shared their opinion, in regards to the Elliptical and the Arc Trainer… and I really greatly appreciate everyone sharing their opinions….
“but again, this is my personal opinion of the two machines based on my results…and I’m sorry, the Elliptical:could never.
“The way that my waist has reduced in size, the way that my core has reduced in size, the way my glutes have lifted and reshaped…I’m sorry, the Elliptical: could never. …
“Again, my personal opinion…(personal opinion, I cannot stress that enough)…everyone’s entitled to their opinion, their preference, but this is mine: “The Arc Trainer?…Hands down.
“Uhmm, the Elliptical? …Ehh, it’s okay.
“But (wrt the Arc Trainer), this is the G.O.A.T., this is the G.O.A.T. “😂
How to burn 900 calories in 60minutes on an Arc Trainer:
“So you wanna know my settings, to help me burn over 900+ calories in 60 minutes? Let me show you… My incline is always going to be on 20, and my resistance is always going to be on either 25 or 30.
“And then, what I do is I find a ‘ratchet song’, and I go for it. So when the song come on, I get my mind right, I lean forward…close my eyes, zone out, focus on the beat of the song, and I push.
“I’m pushin’ those pedals with the weight in my heels. And when I tell you, this works from top to bottom, baby, you goin’ to feel it! You goin’ to feel it fo shor, baybee!
“That playlist got to be on point. When I’m in the gym, it’s straight ‘ratchet’. I put those ear buds in, I zone out, and I make it do what it do.
More differences between the Arc Trainer versus the Elliptical:
“All right, so here’s my personal opinion about the Elliptical and the Arc Trainer.
“Me personally, I just don’t really feel the effect of a full-body workout on the Elliptical. I’m not saying you cannot lose weight, or build muscle on the Elliptical. It’s just (for me personally), it’s not my preference. And it’s also, to me, not as low-impact as the ‘Arc’.
“And as you can see, with the ‘Arc’, it’s more like a gliding-effect, and I’m able to get my knees up, so I am working multiple muscle groups at the same time. So, to me, I am getting a full-body workout.
“Again here are different variations on the machine (see video). You don’t have to go as fast as I am; like I said, I have been doing this for a while, so yeah, I’m going pretty fast, and I have my incline on 20, resistance on 25-30.
“In a second I’ll show you a different angle, just to show you how high I get my knees up. (see video)
“Uhmm yeah, that’s why I say I prefer the ‘Arc’ over the Elliptical, ‘cause I feel like it gives me an overall full-body workout.
“So do what you will with this information, this is my personal opinion.”
This year, I was out with a knee injury from mid January to early April. For most of this time, I could not even x train. However, right around the end of March, I could start doing elliptical workouts. I did high intensity workouts most days for a few weeks and watched my heart rate (both during activity and resting) drop drastically. I started running on April 8th and won my conference steeplechase with a 10 second less than 3 weeks later. Almost all this fitness was from the elliptical; in a month, I did around 15 workouts with around 30 minutes of intensity each (in contrast to my 3 running workouts leading up to my race).
It's incredible what x training can do when you put the work in. Without fatiguing my muscles, I could spend 40 minutes with my HR above 180. The aerobic fitness gains are rapid when you do this repeatedly.
Very interesting thank you. When doing workouts on the elliptical do you try to mirror intensity if you were running? So for a threshold workout for example do you stick with your normal heart rate zones or do you find given the low impact you can pretty much just hammer everyday? Thanks!
This is an interesting discussion. I've been using a Precor FX546 elliptical since January 2023, and a Cybex 610a arc trainer since January of this year. Initially the elliptical was my favorite supplemental exercise, then the arc trainer became my favorite. However now I'm using both of them.
So far I've kept the elliptical incline at 0 and the resistance at 8. I've kept the arc trainer at the default incline of 3 of 10, and the resistance at 40 of 100.
Maybe I'll try putting the incline to 10 (max) like that woman does in the video, but I don't like that the motor always keeps running after stopping to change the incline back to 3, which is stupid. If the programming just left the settings where I'd put them then that would be quite a bit better.
This year, I was out with a knee injury from mid January to early April. For most of this time, I could not even x train. However, right around the end of March, I could start doing elliptical workouts. I did high intensity workouts most days for a few weeks and watched my heart rate (both during activity and resting) drop drastically. I started running on April 8th and won my conference steeplechase with a 10 second less than 3 weeks later. Almost all this fitness was from the elliptical; in a month, I did around 15 workouts with around 30 minutes of intensity each (in contrast to my 3 running workouts leading up to my race).
It's incredible what x training can do when you put the work in. Without fatiguing my muscles, I could spend 40 minutes with my HR above 180. The aerobic fitness gains are rapid when you do this repeatedly.
Very interesting thank you. When doing workouts on the elliptical do you try to mirror intensity if you were running? So for a threshold workout for example do you stick with your normal heart rate zones or do you find given the low impact you can pretty much just hammer everyday? Thanks!
I don't try to mirror running effort, I mostly just hammer. I prioritize high cadence over resistance, so I'll do 0 incline and reps at usually around 9 resistance. I'll do something like 8 x 3 min on, 1 off with cadence around 240-250 during the reps. This is something I've built up to over time and which I certainly couldn't have done as an elliptical newbie. People should do what feels good for them.
Very interesting thank you. When doing workouts on the elliptical do you try to mirror intensity if you were running? So for a threshold workout for example do you stick with your normal heart rate zones or do you find given the low impact you can pretty much just hammer everyday? Thanks!
I don't try to mirror running effort, I mostly just hammer. I prioritize high cadence over resistance, so I'll do 0 incline and reps at usually around 9 resistance. I'll do something like 8 x 3 min on, 1 off with cadence around 240-250 during the reps. This is something I've built up to over time and which I certainly couldn't have done as an elliptical newbie. People should do what feels good for them.
It seems most are doing cross training when they are injured. But I often wonder about those that can't escape injury. Has anyone really tried a fragile runners plan like PV?
M - Double - 2X 60 minute double arc trainer Tu - Hard running Weds - 75 minutes arc Thurs - Double - 60 minutes am , afternoon double either track workout or 60 min crosstrain Friday - Running day Sat - Cross train or rest (doesn't say how long for cross training) Sunday - ~ 13 mile long run or 90 minutes arc
It seems most are doing cross training when they are injured. But I often wonder about those that can't escape injury. Has anyone really tried a fragile runners plan like PV?
M - Double - 2X 60 minute double arc trainer Tu - Hard running Weds - 75 minutes arc Thurs - Double - 60 minutes am , afternoon double either track workout or 60 min crosstrain Friday - Running day Sat - Cross train or rest (doesn't say how long for cross training) Sunday - ~ 13 mile long run or 90 minutes arc
This is exactly the type of approach I’m planning on experimenting with once I’m cleared to run. I know PV is exceptionally talented and a sample size of one but in theory I don’t see how it wouldn’t work for more frail runners or as just a new approach to training in general. Great suggestion!