Can an elite 800M speed-based runner run a sub-21 200M?

Fast800Runner wrote:

Lots of these speed-based 800 guys are running 44-45 second open 400's but very rarely do they ever run an open 200. But if they did, what could they run realistically? I think to run 45, you'd have to at least be capable of a 20.9x - 21.1x.

Guys like Emmanuel Korir run 44.2, but no recorded 200 time as we know. But seriously, if you're running 44.2, you gotta be able to at LEAST run 20.8x.

Will Sumner running 45.7 in HS and splitting 44 in college is more evidence, but his fasted recorded 200M is 21.55 from 2021 when he was still an average 200/400 athlete.

Korir runs 44.2/1:42

Sumner 44 split/1:44

Juantorena 44.2/1:43

And plenty of NCAA D1 athletes who run at least 45/1:46

So, if they wanted to adjust their training a bit and run a couple 200's, would they be able to pop a 20.xx?

Fast800Runner wrote:

newaccountsinceyourwebsitesucks wrote:

Link:worldathletics.org/athletes/fed-rep-ge...

Also, Sumner definitely could have run 20.x his senior year. He ran like, 21.4 indoor or something and then scratched the 200 at state.

Wow, I have never heard of this person. Amazing. That 400mh time is crazy as well

Also agreed, Sumner could definitely have ran 20xx and possibly even low-45's if he had more competition in HS. Nearly all of his races in high school were solo'd, until his 45.7 where 2nd place ran 46.4

44.xx and 45.xx are far different. wrote:

Yes, f.a.t. 44.xx 400m men can or could sprint f.a.t sub-21 200m.

F.a.t. 45.50 and slower 400m men, I would bet against.

F.a.t., 45.00 to 45.49, coin flip.

my two pennies wrote:

I would guess Rudisha had lifetime potential for sub-20 if he took a different path. He ran 45.x as a teenager in Kenya, and set the world record at 500m. Not too dissimilar from Michael Johnson, just with a bit more anaerobic endurance and a bit less acceleration.

John Wesley Harding wrote:

my two pennies wrote:

I would guess Rudisha had lifetime potential for sub-20 if he took a different path. He ran 45.x as a teenager in Kenya, and set the world record at 500m. Not too dissimilar from Michael Johnson, just with a bit more anaerobic endurance and a bit less acceleration.

I see a 46.2 hand-timed in Nairobi when he was 18. But in any event Rudisha and MJ are not similar athletes just because they may have run similar 400 times as teenagers. Could Rudisha have broken 21? For sure. Sub-20? No freaking way.

Fast800Runner wrote:

Lots of these speed-based 800 guys are running 44-45 second open 400's but very rarely do they ever run an open 200. But if they did, what could they run realistically? I think to run 45, you'd have to at least be capable of a 20.9x - 21.1x.

Guys like Emmanuel Korir run 44.2, but no recorded 200 time as we know. But seriously, if you're running 44.2, you gotta be able to at LEAST run 20.8x.

Will Sumner running 45.7 in HS and splitting 44 in college is more evidence, but his fasted recorded 200M is 21.55 from 2021 when he was still an average 200/400 athlete.

Korir runs 44.2/1:42

Sumner 44 split/1:44

Juantorena 44.2/1:43

And plenty of NCAA D1 athletes who run at least 45/1:46

So, if they wanted to adjust their training a bit and run a couple 200's, would they be able to pop a 20.xx?

Fast800Runner wrote:

44.xx and 45.xx are far different. wrote:

Yes, f.a.t. 44.xx 400m men can or could sprint f.a.t sub-21 200m.

F.a.t. 45.50 and slower 400m men, I would bet against.

F.a.t., 45.00 to 45.49, coin flip.

Fair enough, I can see the point here. Though I will say I think any sub 46 runner can also run sub 21, because I believe this to be true...

A 48.00 quarter miler can run a 22.00 200m.
A 46.00 quarter miler can run a 21.00 200m.

And so on

Fast800Runner wrote:

John Wesley Harding wrote:

I see a 46.2 hand-timed in Nairobi when he was 18. But in any event Rudisha and MJ are not similar athletes just because they may have run similar 400 times as teenagers. Could Rudisha have broken 21? For sure. Sub-20? No freaking way.

I think his point was that David Rudisha is like the Michael Johnson of the 800M. A 57 second 500m is just ridiculous though. Probably split like 45 coming through 400. Maybe not EXACTLY like Johnson, but I bet Rudisha might've run ~43.8 and maybe even 19.9. He has the speed.

44.xx and 45.xx are far different. wrote:

Fast800Runner wrote:

I think his point was that David Rudisha is like the Michael Johnson of the 800M. A 57 second 500m is just ridiculous though. Probably split like 45 coming through 400. Maybe not EXACTLY like Johnson, but I bet Rudisha might've run ~43.8 and maybe even 19.9. He has the speed.

I would never have posted on your thread if I thought you believed the above in bold. No 43.xx 400m man would suffer grueling elite 800m training.

44.xx and 45.xx are far different. wrote:

Two types of T&F athletes are guided to 800m as a young teenagers: 1) The worst athletes on T&F team; 2) youth 200m & 400m sprinters who demonstrate the ability to sprint 400m close to their 200m sprint pace.

John Wesley Harding wrote:

44.xx and 45.xx are far different. wrote:

Two types of T&F athletes are guided to 800m as a young teenagers: 1) The worst athletes on T&F team; 2) youth 200m & 400m sprinters who demonstrate the ability to sprint 400m close to their 200m sprint pace.

This just isn’t true. Plenty of schools’ top XC/distance runners discover their best distance is the 800. Eventually the most talented 800 guys gravitate to the 800, with the exception of some decent 400 guys who aren’t super passionate about track anyway.

John Wesley Harding wrote:

my two pennies wrote:

I would guess Rudisha had lifetime potential for sub-20 if he took a different path. He ran 45.x as a teenager in Kenya, and set the world record at 500m. Not too dissimilar from Michael Johnson, just with a bit more anaerobic endurance and a bit less acceleration.

I see a 46.2 hand-timed in Nairobi when he was 18. But in any event Rudisha and MJ are not similar athletes just because they may have run similar 400 times as teenagers. Could Rudisha have broken 21? For sure. Sub-20? No freaking way.