Are old school flats still relevant?

I still train and run in flats. I'm doing all training in the streak lt right now. Some people have a negative response to super shoes, or even a negative response to anything high stack. For them, flats make sense. The one flat on the market, the saucony sinister, seems to sell well, so there is still a market for racing flats.

I think a lot of runners would perform better if they just tried training and racing in flats. A lot of younger runners today have never run in anything but the high stack shoes and super minimal spikes.

I think they are pretty much obsolete at this point. I ran in the NCAA right before super shoes. Lots of guys would run in the streaks or another pair of flat for workouts. I have only owned two pairs of flats in my life, once the vaporflys came out in 2019 they became all I used.

Flats are obsolete for one main reason. The point of flats was to save your legs from hard workouts and or to race road races/marathons in. Now adays super shoes do both of those things significantly better, and if you're doing a specific workout where you need to hit race paces Spikes would be used over flats. In the past I would workout in Flats only to save my legs from working out in Spikes, but now Super shoes fill that void much better and I really can't find a need to work out in flats anymore.

I still race and train competitively, and I have noticed that the new line up of shoes most college kids and serious runners have these days is:

1 pair of trainers, 1 pair of spikes, 2 pairs of super shoes (one to workout in and one to race in)

I think flats still have some niche use, or at least would if they were on the market. I do ALL training and racing in flats including easy runs. Including track races (even down to 3000 which is the shortest distance I'll typically race). Flats fit and feel better on me than any trainer on the market - I'll run over 2 and a half hours in the streak lt.

Spikes damage my feet and I slow down significantly when my feet start hurting in track races. I will use an old pair of forever xcs for cross country when I have to, when there is significant mud, but that is it.

I realize there are few like me, but I think more people would benefit from training in flats than realize it. You get ground feel and good form without some weird bounce motion, you just roll over the ground, letting your leg muscles propel you, idk how to describe it, flats are just right.

I think this ground feel would be exceptionally advantageous in short road races, 10k and down for most even though its advantageous to me up to the marathon.

It probably depends on the runner. To me, yes, they're absolutely relevant. I always felt better running in them and when my knees got gimpy they got gimpier with more cushion and less gimpy with less cushion. My very, very, limited experience with super shoes did not seem to change that.

And I'm not sure why it should.one of the main arguments for running in flats full time is that the shoe isn't altering your normal foot plant. Jack Foster always ran in racing shoes and never had any serious injuries. He told me he thought it was because he got "proper foot plant" because of the flats. I found the same thing.

None of that changes just because a flashy, new, generation of shoes has come along and performed wonders. Maybe I didn't give the super shoes enough time, but I could tell right away that my foot plant in them was very different from what it was in my flats. But even in the brief minimalist era loads of people did not do well being in flats all the time and if they used them at all it was specifically for races and race like efforts. I would imagine for those folks old school flats are no longer relevant but for those of us who found them very relevant when they were on the market they still are. The bigger issue here is whether they're still available.

I still do my hard workouts in flats. I have one pair of supershoes for racing. I haven't really considered using them for fast workouts. I like my racing shoes to be "special" and don't want to workout in the the same shoes I race in. Plus I'm old with old habits.

More or less I agree with you, but I would say that for master athletes that still want to do some racing on the track (maybe 5000/10000 meters?), flats could make sense if they don't like/they are not used to spikes or if they have some physical issues in using them (of course they can't use Vaporflys in a track race). In that case, of course also some training in them would make sense (just to get used to them and not try them on race day for the first time).

For long interval sessions like 1200m or Mile Repeats, I enjoy the super shoes. But a recent 200's session in flats was so much fun that I've reconsidered my stance on super shoes for all interval training. I think the super shoes are good for 8-10 mile runs where you need to do some half marathon and 10K pace stuff on the road but there is just something about flats on the track that I love.

Yes, in California HS and colleges, spikes are not allowed for XC so on grassy courses I go with flats over super shoes. Never understood why people use Vaporflys in XC with how bad they feel on grass, hills or turns. For me, the Zoom Victory Waffles feel much nicer - aggressive, responsive and good grip.

Also, the first version of the Reebok Floatride Run Fast Pros are my go to choice for road races 1 mile to 5k. They feel like a traditional minimalist flat in terms of stack height and ground contact but have the softness / cushion of modern super foam shoes.

My two fastest marathons were in Streak XC (RIP) and Ryan Hall Hyper Speed circa 2007.

Supershoes are the future. However, I really like the Supercomp Pacer and hope there is a marriage of somewhat lower profile road “supershoes” and track distance superspikes.

Oh yeah me too Hyper Speed Chicago 2009.
Loved that shoe.

I have some old school road racing flats from the late 1980's in my garage somewhere. I wonder if they are still good??

don't know what you mean by relevant?

the only question you should be asking yourself is are they working for you.

I am running in old school shoe and could care less what other think.

Their thought have no impact on how the shoes feel to me.

To answer your question, I don't know but this thread reminded of the Jasari spikes and I remember how awesome they were. Literally everyone wore them.

Can anyone recommend some decent flats to train/race in that are on the market right now?

Presuming you are talking about minimalist racing flats.

Yes still relevant. There are some mixed surface technical xc or trail courses where you would not want to race in spikes or high stack supershoes. Too much pavement, concrete, or rocks for actual spikes, and too many uneven, rough surfaces with tight turns for unstable supershoes.

Also, there are often times when you want to run a warm up, cool down, and run a faster workout all in one pair of shoes. Say run two miles to a track, do a workout, then run back.

Spikes and road supershoes are highly specialized and work great when used what they were made for. But they are not very adaptable or multi-purpose like flats are.

A good pair of flats should not beat up your legs if you are running on a good all weather track. The track itself should provide some cushion so there should be no need for thick supershoes.

If you plan to race in flats you should also train some in flats.

Saucony Sinister. Anything else you'll have to order from overseas.