Training for a "pure 800" runner

What are your 400 / 800 / 1500 PRs and what kind of mileage have you done? Example training?

PRs are 56/ 2:02/ 4:23. The 400 is from junior year high school, so it's off of the others because those were both set at the same meet sophomore year of college. Mileage usually builds to 40-50 in the summer, then hovers in the 40s for winter, and then move down to 30s by spring once I start racing. Typical training week once I'm getting ready for competition is a longer workout (mile reps or 800s @ like tempo-5k pace) and then two days faster race pace stuff (400s for mile pace and 300-200s for 800 pace).

Also went through an old training sheet and this is a typical week of training just before competition (this was 3 weeks before I ran my 800/1500 double PRs)

Mon: 6x 800 avg. 2:30 off 2' rest

Tues: 8 easy

Weds: 2x (4x 400) - 68, 67, 66, 65; 68, 69, 70, 63. 1' between reps and ~4' between sets.

Thurs: 8 easy

Fri: 7 easy

Sat: 5 easy

Sun: 8 easy plus 2 hours soccer

*mileage for this week is a little high and soccer isn't something I do regularly but workouts are pretty typical

Are you continuing to run XC now? Are you on a college team? Because that could determine how you structure your fall base building block. You could do similar training to XC in that you don't need to rush to get on the track, but have more frequent days of doing drills and strides. Long hard hill workouts are great for 800m runners in the fall, you could do that once a week as the main effort and add tempos, fartleks, or broken tempos with short rest intervals as other workouts. Long run you can have the freedom of going for quality over quantity. High volume of low intensity plyos could help too.

In the winter/spring leading into competitions (timing depends on if you do indoor track?), you can start hitting the track for your hardest workout of the week. Lots of 200m/300m/400m/600m reps, you can build so many workouts with combos of these. Don't be afraid to do high rest, like 2:00-4:00 on a lot of specific pace stuff. The occasional race-specific workout of fast reps AND low rest is helpful but is taxing on the body and only needs to be done a few times a season. That kind of workout can be effective with just 1 mile worth of work. I don't believe you need to hit the track for workouts more than once a week, especially if you're racing on the track in-season. Second workout of the week could be training run + shorter hill sprints or the occasional lighter fartlek/tempo to keep strength up. If you really want to hit the track twice a week you could do a training run with some sort of progression the last 15 minutes and finish with 4-6x200m at the track. Long run every week, still of good quality. This is important because later in the season it can become your main source of maintaining strength, since you may not be doing a distance workout as frequently. Getting into more intense plyos is good too as you get more track specific. It helps to stack those on the same day as heavy lifting and all-out sprinting. Which is another topic... I think 800m runners should practice the action of sprinting regularly, but in small doses, as it is very taxing on the body. You could do 4-5 accelerations of just 40m, or 150s where you are controlled but then build into a sprint the last 50m. That day could be structured as plyos, then drills and sprints, then heavy explosive lift, then a short easy run 3-5 miles. Drills should not be overlooked either- distance runners or anyone coming from an XC background tend to half-ass them or not do them enough, and we need to learn from sprinters on this.

If that seems like a lot, well, it is. You really have to train both systems to be a good 800m specialist.

Nick Symmonds has his training log detailing every day leading up to the 2012 Olympics, where he ran 1:42, available for free download. You could use this as a starting point for inspiration as he was a pure 800m type. But obviously don't copy the scheduling and volume to a T because he was a much more developed athlete when he did it.

I think a positive way to look at being a pure 800m with those 400m and 1500m PRs is that you have a lot of room to develop and improve both your neuromuscular system for sprinting as well as your cardiovascular system for strength.

For pure 800m runners I don’t think you can go wrong with:

- 30-40 mpw

- Broken threshold, things like 8x800m @LT2 w/ 1 lap jog recovery, 4x5:00 @LT2 w/ 2:30 jog recovery, 5-4-3-2-1 fartlek, things along those lines.

-Vo2Max workouts like 12x400m w/ 1:1 or 1 lap jog rest, 5-6x800m @3k w/1:1 rest, 1600-1200-800-400 cutdown @3k-5k w/1:1 rest etc.

-Mid-D specific workouts like 3x400-200-200 at mile-800-800 pace w/ 1:00 rest and 5:00 between sets, 8x200m @800m pace w/2:00 rest, 5x300m @800m pace w/3:00 rest, 8x400m @mile pace with 1:30-2:00 rest

-Speed endurance workouts like 6x150m w/ full rest, 3x250-150 w/ 60 seconds between reps full rest between sets, 3x300m w/ 6:00 rest, all of these as fast as you can manage.

Do 2-3 of those workouts a week, and some (2-3) 50m flys on your easy days and 1:00-1:30 of cross training a week and you’ll be running well over 800m no doubt.

OP -

Looks to me like your current 400 is probably around 53, maybe 54. I'd say your 800m repeats are too fast -- your 6 x 800m should probably be run at tempo/threshold/cruise, but it looks like you're doing them around VO2max effort. Your 8 x 400m session should probably be at *current* mile/1500m pace, but your are pushing it to more like 1200m pace. That plus no speed sessions means there is plenty of room to improve, so this is good news.

Nice work running 2:02 off that training! I wouldn't have been able to.

If you want to spend a year focusing on the 800, I'd suggest something like this - simple approach - approx 4-6 mos base training

Mon/Tue/Thu/Fri easy 45-60 min

Wed aerobic development - alternate either 5 x 1000m with 200m jog OR 20' tempo run. Look up proper tempo/threshold/cruise pace based on your 4:23 1500m.

Sat speed development - alternate either 5 x 80m hill accelerations OR 4 x 200m smooth accel on the curve then hard on the straight. 5+ min full recovery. Then plyos, drills, weights.

Sun off to recover.

Occasional 5K XC or road race to judge aerobic fitness and recalculate workout paces.

Then, transition to next phase:

Wed 20' tempo, 10+ min recovery, 4 x 150m r5 smooth accel on the curve then hard on the straight.

Sat 3 x (4 x 200m r1) r5 at *current* 800m pace, or just 1 sec faster. Over time, reduce recoveries down to 30 sec and 3 min. Occasional 800m TT to gauge fitness.

And in the last 2 months - Wed 4 x 800m @ VO2max with equal time recovery, rest 20 min, 4 x 150m

Finally, 2 weeks to taper & peak.

Just some ideas, hope this helps, good luck!

running a 2:02 off of a 4:23 suggests you're more of a mile guy

Ask J.Rinaldi his 800m boys are flying at the moment especially BBB and Peter B (sample) ol

At least the OP has serious potential

I'd suggest something like

M - easy

T - shorter reps or mixed (3 x 1000 + 6 x 200 etc)

W - easy

Th - hill sprints/speed

Fr - longer reps (3 x 1.5 miles etc)

S - easy

Su - longer progressive

Had similar 800 PB in high school. Missing some fast stuff in here. As a pure 800 guy, you can do 3 workouts and skip the long run. But there are many ways to train for 800.

One workout that's faster than race pace. 100s, 150s or 200s.

One that's around race pace, longer sets of 200s, 400s, or combinations thereof.

One that's slower like 800s to mile, Georgetown 400s, whatever.

Don't go all out all in training all the time. Let the speed (endurance) develop. I did 200s every week for 2 years. To me that's the most important 800 workout.

I think he was saying that the 4:23 was a 1500m? But if that mark was for a full mile or 1600m then yes I would agree with you.

Wish I sent this to myself 15 years ago when I was in HS obsessed with reading all the threads about 800m training, trying to overcomplicate it.

That's his 1500 pb not mile.

I guess that'd equate to a ~4:45 mile. So his 800 is a much stronger time.

Honestly that 800 is really a lot more impressive than the 400 and 1500 times so it does seem like a good idea to train as a pure 800 guy (seems to be what OP is).

Yes. Want to clarify that the 4:23 is my 1500 PR, definitely not a mile! That's why I consider myself a pure 800 runner though I think my 400 PR would be faster but I haven't run a 400 since high school and basically only run 800, 1500, and 5k since going to college.

To answer some of the other questions: I'm not on an XC team but I do run with the club team and we usually do one xc 8k in the fall that I've done the last two years. This fall I broke 30 for the first time and then ran a few more 5ks before going home for winter break. All 5ks were around 17:20. After getting back I put in about two months of the highest mileage (peaked at 60 but a full month over 50) of my life and then broke 17 for the first time in another road 5k. I thought this would set me up for crazy track season but honestly it's been underwhelming. My 800 times have all been between 2:07-2:04 and my 1500 is basically the same.

I got up to college as a PR 2:01 guy. As a freshman some distance/strength work in the fall.

The coach had us do workouts on M and W. Thursday we warmed up, did strides and ran 3 x 200 starting at race pace then faster. Run 3 miles, do strides on Friday, Race Saturday. Maybe run 8 miles on Wednesday or rest.

The workout days were a fun torture. Typical workout, 3 mile warmup run, 6 x 100 stride working up to race pace.

2 x 400 faster than race pace (I'd usually hit 57, 55 or maybe 56, 54)

Rest / jog for 5 minutes between 400s

1 x 600 @ race pace (I'd usually hit 1:27, or 1:28. I'd get as low as 1:24 at times)

This got my freshman PR down to 1:57.7 in an open race, 1:57.2 relay.

I begged to be put in the miler group! My 400 PR is 53. I was too slow for this stuff!

For a pure 800m runner, doing 50-60 MPW helps a lot to improve the 5K time, but you cannot expect to bang a 800m PR out of that training alone. It provides a very good base and your fitness has probably improved, but afterwards you need a couple months of 800m specific training to convert the improved fitness in a better 800m time.

100%. I think the high mileage is the worst thing to focus on as an 800 guy... it can even slow down some pure 800 types.

Def hit a season with 30-40mpw like above and then you start peppering in some extra miles and a bit longer threshold work, etc.

I honestly think some would be better served with various methods of cross training, vs upping mileage and having more pounding on the legs.

Right, that's in line with what I was saying above. Makes sense

Question about this: do I need a lactate meter and testing to determine LT zones? As I'm sure you guys can tell from my training sample but I sometimes have trouble keeping a lid on my workouts and I know LT stuff isn't always reliable based on feel. I also try to keep my workouts pretty simple since it's just me by myself on the track for these.