Super Shoes are overated.... at least for some?

Um, the WR in the HM is 57:31 and the marathon WR is 2:00:35. Those aren't happening without super shoes, sorry. Also, look at the womens' times. It doesn't take much to realize.

I referred to the American half marathon world record, which still stands, by Ryan Hall. No super shoe. That's the first thing. Secondly, I'm not saying that super shoes don't help some or haven't made a difference. I'm asking if others, like myself, have discovered that they actually hinder their performance rather than help.

I should also note, the distances I sighted in my post were the 5k - half marathon. It's entirely possible that over the distance of a full marathon, my experience could be different, but that wasn't the distance I was referring too.

I'm with you. I forget where, but I'm certain I saw something about super responders, neutral responders, and negative responders. I am absolutely a negative responder. In theory, I love the feeling of the bouncy shoes--they really are incredible from an engineering perspective--and it's even possible that they gave some of my workouts a boost (I think I only did three workouts in them), but after years of being a tough racer who almost never under-performed in competition, in the one "season" during which I raced in super Adidas shoes, I never put together a race that felt good or justified my preparation. Then, last fall, I raced in a light-ish trainer (some kind of Saucony) and had races that, while not exceptional, felt much better and seemed to correspond better to the work I had put in. It's possible that there is super-shoe out there that would better leverage my stride-type, but I sure didn't have it--and I'm not sure it's worth the time to find it, or the expense to buy it.

Thank you for your feedback! What distances are you running? I also have a theory that it's related to a runners background. I was a CC runner in high school and maybe I'm just accustomed to that ground feel.

Most people get a boost from using vaporfly/alphafly shoes.

But the effect (boost) only last for the first 450 kilometers compared to ”normal” race shoes. (grövdahl/narve speaks about shoes here (in norwegian)) ->

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Nobody except perhaps Rupp at his prime was as good as Hall among Americans. There are low and negative responders to super shoes but most likely Hall would have been in the 58s with super shoes.

What do you mean by gait problem?

The shoes are softer and high stacks, do you mean you have ankle instability and are excessively over pronate?

if so I can understand firmer and lower stack shoes would help you.

A few thoughts:

-Not all super shoes are the same. I assume when you said Endorphin Speeds in 2020 -- those were the first iteration? The Endorphin Speed 3 is a totally different shoe. Same with the Pros. The shoe was completed changed from Pro 2 to Pro 3. I've tried Saucony, Nike, and Asics carbon racers. They all have a different feel and I can feel my stride adjusting differently depending on the shoe.

-Super shoes are definitely unnecessary for some. I think a lot of non-elites would be better off racing marathons in trainers rather than carbon plated shoes. Look at Boston on Monday -- so many people crashed hard in the second half of the race. Super shoes SUCK when you are at a slower pace/sloppy form.

-I am still of the belief that the true racing super shoes (vapor/alphaflys, saucony pros, etc.) should be saved for races and key workouts only. Super trainers like the Endorphin Speeds have their place, but traditional trainers should eat up the bulk of your mileage.

2 months after Ryan Hall ran 59:43, the World Record was set by Sammy Wanjiru at 58:33. Zersenay Tadese would improve it to 58:23 in 2010. Tadese ran 26:37 for 10,000m pre-superspikes and was a 1x World XC/ 4x World Half Champion with a good record on the track as well with multiple global medal. So, not a slouch and in his best event. A record that could be lightly better, but certainly not something you'd expect to be destroyed and commonplace for the best runners each year.

Since the advent of supershoes, his time has been knocked down all the way to 57:30 and sub-58 is not considered a huge deal for the best 10K runners moving up.

What's American half marathon world record?

they work

It would appear that the general consensus so far is that most love and support the notion that super shoes are king. I suppose my only option is to see what happens in a pair of racing flats. My interval and threshold runs feel much better in flats, that I can say 100%. I've got 15 days until the race. I can test out the flats on a long run with some effort mix in and see how it feels and then make a decision. Thanks for the feedback.

I would say if you don't like or feel comfortable in carbon-plate shoes, then I wouldn't wear them. I would encourage you to stick with what you feel comfortable doing. It'll just make things simpler and more enjoyable.

There are plenty of light weight trainers out there (non plated) that are great quality.

Why haven't you explored a rod shoe AKA adidas Takumi Sen 8 or 9?

A bridge shoe between the two worlds.