I am a collegiate distance runner who has run 4:08 in the mile in a conservative effort a few weeks back but I just did 15x30.3 sec avg 200 with 30 sec sec standing rest with half being into a 12 mph headwind, then after the 15th rep I did 60 sec standing rest and a 56.6 sec 400. I had heard bill bowerman had a similar workout of 16x30/30 and if you completed it you could do a 3:45 1500 roughly or something like that. What should my workout project?
Single workouts don't really predict anything. Bill Bowerman (or any other good coach) could use a workout as a prediction because it's within the context of a complete training system within which they know how certain sessions tend to correlate to race performance. Take away that context of all the other sessions providing complementary stimuli, the current fatigue of cumulative training that athlete is under, their historical performance in relation to workout metrics, etc... and it becomes meaningless.
I run in a program that does 30/30s frequently, I haven’t seen any collation between completing the workout and performance. It usually is hard the first time you do it but it’s something you learn how to do. I’ve seen guys who can barely break 4 in the 15 get through 8-10 of them no problem. I wouldn’t put too much stock into them, good tuneup and sharpening work but hardly a true indicator of fitness
Bill (D) had us do 8-12 30/30 200m on the track in the afternoon after having done a 4-5 mile tempo run at 5 min pace in the morning at Amazon trail. Both workouts felt easy enough on their own, but made me feel tired after the early morning tempo and then 200s that felt slow in the afternoon. I was too young and dumb at the time to appreciate what Bill was trying to accomplish with the split workout.
Believe you’re thinking of the 30/40 workout which is a 200m in 30 and the rest in between is a 40 second 200m.
No. It was Dellinger, not Bowerman, prescribed 30/30s, which were done almost weekly, usually on Mondays. Generally his athletes had done 8-12 of them. A few got up to 16, which Dellinger told me you were ready to run 4:00 if you could do that.
The 30/40 workout was done rarely, perhaps 2 or 3 times in an entire year.
There are many threads on LRC that dig deeply into the Oregon 30/30, 30/40.
Not to hijack the thread, but I'm reading these workouts and laughing a bit at myself, because I can't seem to even run one 30 second 200m in training anymore. I'm mid-30s and have recently ran a 4:31 mile and 15:11 5k (not my PBs, but not that far off), but even when I run sharpening workouts and go really hard for the final 200m, I can only seem to run 31. I ran a solo all out 400m time trial last spring and only managed 60.7.
Basically, I'm wondering if it's strange that I can still run within 5 or 6 seconds of my mile PB, but my all-out speed is so bad I can't break 60? Or is this just normal for someone in their mid-30s? Do you think improving this sprint speed would benefit me at mile-5k distances, or is it just what it is at this point? To be fair, I've always lacked speed. My 400m best in high school was only 56.
I think for some people, a short recovery between reps can be very effective. I never kept a written record of workouts in high school and college, but I don't recall ever getting less than 2 minutes recovery. In my early 30s after giving up on the marathon ( I always disliked long runs) I decided to construct an interval program constructed around 1 minute recovery for everything - 200s, 400s, 800s and miles. It meant slowing down a bit, but I got within 10 sec. of my modest 10km PR.
Believe you’re thinking of the 30/40 workout which is a 200m in 30 and the rest in between is a 40 second 200m.
The 30/30 is another workout used by Bowerman involving 30 second 200's with 30 seconds of standing rest
Wouldnt 30 sec 200s be a totally different workout for different athletes? Thats top speed for some (in say... HS), mile pace for others. Weird. I get the concept but shouldnt it be an effort not a time?
I think for some people, a short recovery between reps can be very effective. I never kept a written record of workouts in high school and college, but I don't recall ever getting less than 2 minutes recovery. In my early 30s after giving up on the marathon ( I always disliked long runs) I decided to construct an interval program constructed around 1 minute recovery for everything - 200s, 400s, 800s and miles. It meant slowing down a bit, but I got within 10 sec. of my modest 10km PR.
Equal time rest is not considered short for Vo2max workouts, which is what I would call this -- for someone in roughly 3:45 shape.
I can't imagine that 200s are ever a great proctor workout for the 1500, but a 3:45 1500 would be a good indication that you ran the workout at the right pace.