Gault is out of touch. NXN has the weaker individual fields, he simply isn’t paying attention.
Let’s look at 2022 results from Foot Locker and how good they ran in college or this year -
1. Baloga (Colorado) one of the top NCAA freshman and made U20 team
2. Shea. #1 American at U20
3. Noe (Arkansas) was Razorbacks #1 runner part of the year one of top freshman in NCAA
6. Macchia. US U20 team
7. Stephens (NC State) national champion contributor perhaps top freshman in NCAA
8. Zealand. US u20 team
Can run the same exercise in boys. Competition is not even close.
Agree.
Rocky Hansen placed 11th at Foot Locker last year and was the top NCAA freshman most of the year for Wake Forest. Simeon Birnbaum placed 4th at Foot Locker and ended up running like 3:37 for 1500m. Not sure what Gault is hedging at, as he missed Grant Fisher in his introduction and put Solinsky instead for some reason.
"In 2023, for the first time, Foot Locker offered at-large spots to two top California athletes, Sadie Engelhardt and Emmanuel Perez, meaning they would advance straight to nationals without having to run the West Regional."
Now if Foot Locker can expand that invitation from one boy and one girl to a few more, then Foot Locker can get some high quality runners who previously weren't able to run both NXR and Foot Locker Regional races.
Gault has been out of pocket lately. He also said Pre didn’t understand the concept of winning. The BroJos should stop having a Brit comment on USA running history.
"In 2023, for the first time, Foot Locker offered at-large spots to two top California athletes, Sadie Engelhardt and Emmanuel Perez, meaning they would advance straight to nationals without having to run the West Regional."
Now if Foot Locker can expand that invitation from one boy and one girl to a few more, then Foot Locker can get some high quality runners who previously weren't able to run both NXR and Foot Locker Regional races.
That would have been a mistake.. opening up Pandora’s box of other deserving talent instead of playing favorites to the CA sweethearts.
Gault is out of touch. NXN has the weaker individual fields, he simply isn’t paying attention.
Let’s look at 2022 results from Foot Locker and how good they ran in college or this year -
1. Baloga (Colorado) one of the top NCAA freshman and made U20 team
2. Shea. #1 American at U20
3. Noe (Arkansas) was Razorbacks #1 runner part of the year one of top freshman in NCAA
6. Macchia. US U20 team
7. Stephens (NC State) national champion contributor perhaps top freshman in NCAA
8. Zealand. US u20 team
Can run the same exercise in boys. Competition is not even close.
Look at this year, the girls field is significantly weaker. Shea is in worse shape than last year (nearly 30 seconds slower over 3k). Other big names like Leachman and Forsyth got dusted at nxn. Unless Leachman and Forsyth are both last, it's going to be hard to say that FLN was stronger for girls.
Boys is a closer case, will be interesting to see how Cameron Todd does, but i think he is the favorite.
"In 2023, for the first time, Foot Locker offered at-large spots to two top California athletes, Sadie Engelhardt and Emmanuel Perez, meaning they would advance straight to nationals without having to run the West Regional."
Now if Foot Locker can expand that invitation from one boy and one girl to a few more, then Foot Locker can get some high quality runners who previously weren't able to run both NXR and Foot Locker Regional races.
So Sadie WAS able to run Foot Locker, but turned it down? When did she find out she would be able to run it?
"In 2023, for the first time, Foot Locker offered at-large spots to two top California athletes, Sadie Engelhardt and Emmanuel Perez, meaning they would advance straight to nationals without having to run the West Regional."
Now if Foot Locker can expand that invitation from one boy and one girl to a few more, then Foot Locker can get some high quality runners who previously weren't able to run both NXR and Foot Locker Regional races.
So Sadie WAS able to run Foot Locker, but turned it down? When did she find out she would be able to run it?
I also forgot to mention that it's easier to make FLN than NXN as an individual in alot of places. Colorado's qualifiers were in the 30-40th range at NXRSW. Utah qualifiers from FL west were better , 9-21st.
Leachman and Forsyth and Englehardt are the big names, but not in the mud. Guess we’ll see what the track has to say.
IMO I think Leachman and Forsyth's poor performances are much more related to the fact they were obvious uncomfortable being in a field were someone else was actually capable of going with them. Both Leachman and Forsyth have dominated all year, and weren't mentally prepared for actually competition, and as a result had a crazy first kilo trying to establish a lead. Maybe they will learn from that and do better this week and try to ease into the race more, but even in dry conditions I think the same script happens were Leachman and Forsyth have a stupid fast first k trying to front run like they have all year.
Leachman and Forsyth and Englehardt are the big names, but not in the mud. Guess we’ll see what the track has to say.
IMO I think Leachman and Forsyth's poor performances are much more related to the fact they were obvious uncomfortable being in a field were someone else was actually capable of going with them. Both Leachman and Forsyth have dominated all year, and weren't mentally prepared for actually competition, and as a result had a crazy first kilo trying to establish a lead. Maybe they will learn from that and do better this week and try to ease into the race more, but even in dry conditions I think the same script happens were Leachman and Forsyth have a stupid fast first k trying to front run like they have all year.
IMO I think Leachman and Forsyth's poor performances are much more related to the fact they were obvious uncomfortable being in a field were someone else was actually capable of going with them. Both Leachman and Forsyth have dominated all year, and weren't mentally prepared for actually competition, and as a result had a crazy first kilo trying to establish a lead. Maybe they will learn from that and do better this week and try to ease into the race more, but even in dry conditions I think the same script happens were Leachman and Forsyth have a stupid fast first k trying to front run like they have all year.
^stupid take
What's the alternative explanation for the first kilometer? Was it really Leachmans game plan to go out on pace to utterly eviscerate thouy's course record in the mud? They hit 1k on pace for sub 16, no one has ever broken 16:30 in good conditions on the course. What's more likely, she went our with an absolutely terrible game plan of destroying Thouy's record in the mud, or she being a sophomore who hasn't had a real opponent in over two months, wasn't used to someone being with her and got carried away trying to front run like normal?
Leachman and Forsyth and Englehardt are the big names, but not in the mud. Guess we’ll see what the track has to say.
IMO I think Leachman and Forsyth's poor performances are much more related to the fact they were obvious uncomfortable being in a field were someone else was actually capable of going with them. Both Leachman and Forsyth have dominated all year, and weren't mentally prepared for actually competition, and as a result had a crazy first kilo trying to establish a lead. Maybe they will learn from that and do better this week and try to ease into the race more, but even in dry conditions I think the same script happens were Leachman and Forsyth have a stupid fast first k trying to front run like they have all year.
my 2 cents is they were used to running sub 17s all year and just started going hard and with the first 2K net downhill and really without much of any up slpoes they got out way too fast, then mud and hills started to take their toll in a big way.
The biggest issue NXN has is a lack of memorable individual winners and a meaningful course record. Each year, the conditions seem to vary wildly and I think the course has changed a few times but honestly I'm not sure how many or what the courses were because I don't really care. Foot Locker will always be the legit national champs for me. It's also funny to me that Gault brought up that Cole Hocker lost NXN but won Foot Locker as a point against Foot Locker, when I'd say that was actually a huge selling point because Hocker turned out to be the way bigger talent Liam Anderson.
Ultimately though, I think people watching nationals from the outside and ranking the competition at the very top isn't the big issue. What I got from the article is that Foot Locker is getting hurt by NXN in the regionals, which is really the big issue since that's the mass participation race where you can get more entry fees and sell gear at booths. Also, since they're both running at a loss, Nike just has deeper pockets so they could keep going and just let Foot Locker struggle to make up the loss while they laugh at the pocket change it costs to run.
Leachman and Forsyth and Englehardt are the big names, but not in the mud. Guess we’ll see what the track has to say.
IMO I think Leachman and Forsyth's poor performances are much more related to the fact they were obvious uncomfortable being in a field were someone else was actually capable of going with them. Both Leachman and Forsyth have dominated all year, and weren't mentally prepared for actually competition, and as a result had a crazy first kilo trying to establish a lead. Maybe they will learn from that and do better this week and try to ease into the race more, but even in dry conditions I think the same script happens were Leachman and Forsyth have a stupid fast first k trying to front run like they have all year.
Nah. I'm guessing Leachman will learn a big lesson from last week. She doesn't seem like a dummy, and you'd have to be a dummy to fail to make a big adjustment after a catastrophic blow-up like that one.
(And she could still lead the race out hard running *much* more sanely and conservatively than she did last week. That was just plain nuts, and anyone with a room-temp IQ knew from halfway that she was sure to blow up big-time.)
What's the alternative explanation for the first kilometer? Was it really Leachmans game plan to go out on pace to utterly eviscerate Touhy's course record in the mud?
They hit 1k on pace for sub 16, no one has ever broken 16:30 in good conditions on the course. What's more likely, she went our with an absolutely terrible game plan of destroying Thouy's record in the mud, or she being a sophomore who hasn't had a real opponent in over two months, wasn't used to someone being with her and got carried away trying to front run like normal?
The second option is much more likely.
While I understand why you came to that conclusion, your conclusion is incorrect. It was actually the first of your two scenarios . (Not a guess. I actually talked to some people who know Leachman and I found out for sure.)
Leachman had no experience with mud, and she didn't think it would effect her that much. She is very overconfident in her abilities. She naively thought she could run incredibly fast despite the mud. So yes, she actually went out that fast on purpose.
She went into NXN thinking she was superwoman. Her only loss of the year was when she ran the second fastest 3 mile race of all time, and she believes that she is in much better shape than that now. (Once again, not a guess. I talked to people who know Leachman.)
You, I, and most people here think that a girl trying to run 16 flat pace on a wet muddy course makes no sense, but to her it made sense at the time.
You guys really don't understand how good Elizabeth Leachman believes that she is. She isn't cocky about it or anything. She's a very nice person. But she genuinely believes that the regular pacing rules don't apply to her, because she believes she is that talented.
But in reality she is a relatively new runner who doesn't understand just how much hills, water, mud, etc. effect a cross country race. And she doesn't understand just how good girls like Touhy, Melody Fairchild, etc. were.
I think that by next year Leachman will have matured and learned a lot. But is she capable of learning a valuable lesson about pacing in just a few days time, and apply it to tomorrow's Foot Locker race? We'll find out in less than 24 hours.
Nah. I'm guessing Leachman will learn a big lesson from last week. She doesn't seem like a dummy, and you'd have to be a dummy to fail to make a big adjustment after a catastrophic blow-up like that one.
(And she could still lead the race out hard running *much* more sanely and conservatively than she did last week. That was just plain nuts, and anyone with a room-temp IQ knew from halfway that she was sure to blow up big-time.)
That's true. But halfway through the race the announcer guy said that he thought no one was going to catch Leachman. How do these announcers not know anything about pacing?
"In 2023, for the first time, Foot Locker offered at-large spots to two top California athletes, Sadie Engelhardt and Emmanuel Perez, meaning they would advance straight to nationals without having to run the West Regional."
Now if Foot Locker can expand that invitation from one boy and one girl to a few more, then Foot Locker can get some high quality runners who previously weren't able to run both NXR and Foot Locker Regional races.
So Sadie WAS able to run Foot Locker, but turned it down? When did she find out she would be able to run it?
Sadie accepted her Foot Locker invitation BEFORE NXN, but Foot Locker decided not to announce it until after NXN.
But by the time NXN finished, Sadie had changed her mind and she won't be running Foot Locker after all.