Barefoot shoes for trail running?

I think it's time for you to get a new PT

I'm not a barefoot shoe fan. However, the most commonly used "barefoot" shoes for trail running are not merely "water shoes" with laces. "Barefoot" trail running shoe models tend to offer protection for the feet and toes against roots, rocks, etc. They also tend to offer grip (lugs, etc) for slippery conditions.

There used to be numerous barefoot models available at local running shops that one could try out, but I think they've become less available as the barefoot fad faded.

I experimented with barefoot shoes for several months during the barefoot fad, and ultimately ended up running a trail marathon in barefoot trail shoes by a brand called "Xero." Like the vast majority of others who dabbled in the barefoot craze, I did not find barefoot shoes to be life altering.

If interested in taking such shoes for a spin, the primary consideration is that you have to really ease into wearing them. Like, maybe start off by taking walks in them. Then progress to short easy runs and so forth. You're absolutely setting yourself up for injury if you start off by simply throwing them on and running an easy 10.

In the past, other than trying barefoot shoes for a couple of runs maybe 15 years ago, I've stuck to doing slow barefoot strides on the soccer pitch after a track workout. That's 400-800m of strides. That might be better for me than to run my normal 3 mile trail loop.

I'm just curious to see if anyone goes minimalist on their trail runs and if so, what shoes do they use?

Oh, and I should add that I was seeing the PT for my back. The trail runs in minimalist shoes conversation briefly came up after the session was over.

I am not a fan of that "minimalist" concept. Let's not forget that Teva lost a big class action lawsuit years back about their health claims.

No idea what the OP foot problems are, so it's impossible to make any sensible recommendations.

I've never really understood the point of wearing a "barefoot" shoe over just using a low cushion neutral trainer with decent flexibility. The idea from the Born to Run book that suggests putting a shoe on your foot prevents its natural movement seems a little far fetched to me in the sense that your foot is not in a case that cannot flex etc... What and how much difference is there in what your foot is actually doing in a barefoot shoe vs just a regular non-max cushion or stuff shoe, I've never seen any science on this. Seems weird a PT would even suggest it.

What problem are they trying to solve? I'm not sure the evidence is there that 'barefoot' shoes are a great idea for regular runs (though can be useful for form drills and short stuff).

Did they mean something more like zero drop? Some research (I don't have the link) showed that a heel drop over 7mm forced the pelvis to tilt which can lead to all kinds of biomechanical ticks. A lower heel drop (like Altras or similar) might be what they were alluding to?

And isn't the usual treatment for improving proprioception the standing-on-one-foot-with-eyes-closed-while-brushing-teeth test?

it IS true that using minimal shoes will strengthen feet, ankle and calf muscles in a meaningful way. this WILL increase proprioception. those are good things.

that said, many people do not have the strength to support going into minimal shoes. even those who do will be prone to injury. its high risk with certain reward if you don't hurt yourself.

you know your body best. if your weekly strides feel ok on the soccer pitch, try a mile at the track. if you want to extend it out, take it really slowing, its really easy to do too much and not readily feel the negative impacts.

there are a variety of brands still offering minimal shoes. shoe choice is another very individual thing, what works for some feet doesn't work for others (even with much less shoe). vivobarefoot, xero, merrel are the brands i recall.

if you were to run on "trails", think wide, completely non-technical fireroads or similar, JUST for the sake of having softer ground.

Good God no!!

As someone who raced on a trail in minimalist trail shoes, 6 months later I am still affected by 3 partially torn ligaments (plantar plate and collateral). One of the specialists I have seen, who is also an avid runner, indicated my scenario (trail running with rocks in minimal shoes) is one of the most common ways people get this injury.

That wasn't Teva. You are thinking of Vibram Five Fingers.

The barefoot concept is sound. Your feet do get stronger if you go barefoot often. No one questions that those barefoot Kenyan girls at World XC over the decades or Zola Budd in her prime had strong feet and could do all their running barefoot if they wanted. Barefoot also doesn't deform your feet to become shoe shaped - bunions, etc.

It's the execution that wrecked runners because most people underestimated how long it takes to strengthen the bones, muscles, tendons/ligaments in the feet if you've done almost all the running and walking in your life in shoes. Depending on their background with shoes/barefoot, some runners, like me, could run full time in fairly minimalist shoes. But I used to sometimes run in racing flats for everything at times, and would put thousands of miles in a single pair of regular trainers. Even I had a hard time when trying the thinnest shoes. I think it would take years rather than weeks or months for the average runner who has always run in shoes to fully adapt to the more minimalist shoes. If all you care about is running and it doesn't matter to you how strong your feet are, there's no need to go there.

You have to be able to walk before you run. Just walk around barefoot. It feels good. Walk on different surfaces. Feel how weak your feet are walking gingerly on rock or pebbles. Imagine running barefoot on feet like that. Of course you're going to get metatarsal stress fractures. I'd do a ton of barefoot walking (maybe a year?), until your feet feel strong walking on anything, pebbles, gravel, dirt, etc. before considering that they are strong enough to run barefoot or the more minimalist shoes without injury. I grew up walking barefoot in the house and yard, so I at least had that. Now, I consider it good foot exercise and relief to go out in flip flops when walking the dog, so I can slip out of them to play around walking on different things barefoot for bits, or even climbing around on rocks barefoot.

I run mostly in regular trainers these days, with more of an emphasis on fit than thickness, making sure they aren't tight at all on my bunions. My feet get some exercise walking around barefoot, but at this point, I'm not doing enough of it, so they don't feel strong enough to go as minimalist as I did in the past (now in my mid-50s).

I agree with the poster above, walk before you run. Just walking I barefoot shoes can give you a majority of the benefits without extra risk that running in barefoot shoes brings. Find a decent looking pair of Xero's or Vivobarefoot and wear them for your everyday shoes.

Also continue those barefoot strides.

yes running on rocky trails with thin-soled shoes will cause more problems.

you want to keep the cushioning under your foot but change the heel to toe drop height.

do the barefoot running on grass or at the track.

Fisky I run barefoot and minimalist on trails and I've been doing it for a long time. I'm currently 51 and average 40 miles with usually 4000+ ft elevation for 6-7 hours of running per week. All of it is barefoot or in sandals.

I'll be running the Urban Cow half marathon on Sacramento on Oct 1 as part of a USATF 50+ Masters team. I'm also running some of the PA series masters XC races with LMJS out of Oakland. I usually do these races barefoot. Urban Cow half barefoot for sure. I mention that because I believe you live in Sacramento.

Most barefoot running sandals are made with the same sole materials from Vibram. The most popular brand is Luna. I haven't followed this stuff much lately but Patrick Sweeney is an ultra runner who wore Lunas for a lot of his races. I think he is still racing.

Hey, thanks. I used to live in Sacramento and used to run segments of the Western States 100 trail 25 years ago. I live in Nashville now. The trails here are a LOT more technical than WS100. (Yes, I know that there are technical sections of WS100.)

The responses here so far are what I expected. I think I'll stick to running completely barefoot on the soccer pitch. All I have to do is know where the sprinker heads are and avoid them!

Let me add that I LOVE running barefoot in the morning dew after a hard track workout. If I'm too tired to run, sometimes I'll just walk it barefoot.

I'd second Luna sandals. I use a pair for walking and hiking but they seem sturdy enough for east coast trail running. I think you'd really want something with that Vibram outsole or similar if you're going on rocky trails, just to avoid stone bruises.

Of course if you go around barefoot a lot your skin will become used to it and the nerve endings in your feet become desensitized to it but that doesn't mean its "making your foot stronger" in some meaningful way to "fix" something about your running gait. Whenever this topic comes up its just like in the Born to Run book, just anecdotes and no actual science to support it.

fisky, do you even have any fat pads in your feet left?

this sounds like a terrible idea for someone more advanced in age

"barefoot shoes", what a scammy name

73 yr old here who ran mostly in minimalist shoes from 1967 until about 3yrs ago. I have a couple of age group podium finishes in USATF XC and Club XC Nationals in recent years. I'm relatively light weight (125 lbs now, and 130lbs when I ran in college). I used to run trails twice a week in Mizuno or New Balance spikeless XC shoes, but, finally after 55 years of running, the fat pads on the bottom of my feet thinned out so much that my feet were feeling really beat up and I was getting some inflammation issues around my calcaneous and achilles lower attachment.

One of my running friends is a New Balance rep. He suggested I try some of the highly cushioned "super shoes". I started with the NB Fuel Cell Rebel v2s, and then the NB RC Elite v2s. All of my foot inflammation issues went away and I feel like my legs are recovering better from runs in the cushioned shoes. Currently, I am rotating among my NB Rebel v2s, NB Elite v2s, and Nike VF Next% 2s. The NB Elite v2s are the most comfortable shoes I have ever run in, and the Nike Next% 2s are the fastest shoe I have run in. I'll move up to the current models of those shoes when mine wear out.

The improvements in proprioception from running trails largely come from the fact that every foot strike is slightly different and you constantly are adjusting stride length, foot placement, cadence, etc. to run efficiently and relaxed over changing terrain. The thickness or cushioning of your shoe sole has much less effect on it. At your age I definitely would not start down the path of minimalist shoes.

Just one thought. Get a new PT person.