Training Log - "Modifying the Norwegian Approach to lower mileage"

Cool stuff, good luck with that. What is your Max HR? Any mention of HR averages without knowing your Max HR is misleading.

I've been loosely following this approach for the past month or so. Usually at this point in the season I would just do lots of steady running, but I don't think that has ever helped much. I suspect I'll be sucked back into the VO2 pace workouts at some point but so far I'm enjoying the consistency of 3 workouts per week. Easy pace is usually 8:00-8:30 per mile. 5k best over the summer was about 17 minutes and 1 mile time a disappointing 4:55. Hoping for an OK cross-country season.

Week 1:

75 minutes easy, 45 minutes easy, 4x1 mile/60s rest (6:30 pace), 45 minutes easy, 20x300m/40s rest (64s average), rest day, 8x800/60s rest (6:00 pace)

Week 2:

75 minutes easy, 45 minutes easy, 8x3 minutes/90s rest (6:00 pace on grass, club session), 45 minutes easy, 20x300m/30s rest (64s average), rest day, 4x1 mile/60s rest (6:30 pace)

Week 3:

75 minutes easy, 37 minutes easy, club session (5 miles at 10k-HM pace over various distances), 45 minutes easy, 20x300m/30s rest (64s average), rest day, 4 miles at 6:30 pace (treadmill)

Week 4 (a bit disrupted by travel):

30 minutes easy (jet lag), 8x800m/1 minute rest (6:00 pace), 57 minutes easy, 4x1 mile/60s jog (treadmill, 6:15 pace), 38 minutes easy, rest day, 4x1.1 mile undulating loop/60s rest (6:30 pace)

Too early to tell if this is overdoing things but so far I feel great, despite missing quite a lot of sleep in the past 10 days. Some of the workouts perhaps stray beyond the core philosophy (I'd rather run with a group once a week even if it means slightly longer recoveries and slightly sandbagging the intended workout). I've mostly been aiming to feel fine the next day and achieving that. So far I'm doing this without an LT meter or HRM. Should perhaps get one or both.

On some really hard efforts my Garmin has measured me a few times between 187-193, so I just say its ~190. I'm thinking about trying to find an inexpensive HR chest strap that can connect to my watch, i just have to wrap my head around whether it's worth buying extra gear and being the dork running at 7:00 pace with a chest strap on.

Sam, I'm running into the same problem with the group workouts. It's fun to be a part of the group, but running the workouts as written, especially with people that are the same level as me, usually leave me feeling thrashed. I guess I could just run the workouts a little easier and shorten up the rest to make it closer to the Sub-T effort, I'm just worried the workouts will end up in a weird middle ground.

I'm making an effort to run with people who would have been a bit slower than me and I seem to be recovering OK. If I'm going to be a hobby jogger I'd rather not give up the social side of the sport for the sake of training purity. This does seem to be a practical challenge with the idea though. We'll see how it goes.

Mostly self-coached US HS runner, but on a "team" for entering and scoring in meets. We have a "coach" (parent) who keeps tabs on us, organizes occasional group runs, and enters us in meets. Last year (JR) 17:04 PR off peak mileage of 40 miles/week. I went to an XC camp at a D3 college over the summer and was offered a roster spot next year. Several other D3 schools are staying in contact.

Finding it difficult to fully commit to 3 x sub-T (still doing some goal 5K pace stuff), but here's 4 weeks (plus a few days). Using some Daniel's symbols because I am used to them, but the T paces are in line with the sub-T thread. Attempting to get more total quality work per week without excess fatigue or injury.

Note: generally, Sundays off, E runs are 5-6 miles, "long" runs are usually 9-11 miles on Sat mornings in cooler temps, workouts have warm up and cooldown. Weird distances are due to available loops and trails. < 40% of running on roads/pavement/track. Also, US South, constrained to afternoon workouts, so heat/humidity is a factor most days.

When our "team" gets together, my teammates usually take my lead and do whatever I'm doing, so I'm kinda the real coach on workout days.

(Sun-Sat) week 1: off, 800m T + 3 x 1200m T, E run, 4 x 1300m T, E run, E run + 8 x 200m R, L run. 31 miles

week 2: off, evening 5K TT w/team, E run, E run + 6 x 220 R, 5 x 1000m T, E run, L run. 34 miles

week 3: off, 6 x 400m goal 5K (workout cut short due to weather), E run, 2 x 3000m T, E run, E run + 3 x 220 R, morning 5K XC race. 32 miles

week 4: off, E run + ST, 2 x 2400m T, E run + ST, 8 x 600 goal 5K pace, E run + ST, L run. 39 miles

week 5: off, 4 x mile T (yesterday), planned E + ST today

Wednesday: probably off due to hurricane

Thursday: 5K XC race will probably get canceled due to hurricane

As temps cool off, E runs will increase to 7-8 miles. L runs will probably settle at 11-12. Weekly mileage should get to around 50/week. Hoping to break 16:30 this fall, Track goals are 10:00 for 3200, 4:30 for 1600 and 2:10 for 800.

Any good advice or constructive criticism is welcome.

An HR strap for this kind of work is very beneficial imo. Comparing my HR data when I used a wrist optical sensor vs when I wore a strap is night and day though it might just mean my watch's optical sensor sucks. It's nice being able to look at the data and being a lot more confident it's correct.

Another exciting week done:

77 minutes easy, 52 minutes easy, club session (27.5 minutes total at 5:50-6:15 pace over 2-4 minute efforts with 60-90s recoveries), 46 minutes easy, 20x300/30s rest (average 66s), rest day, 4x1 mile/60s jog (6:15 average). Felt a bit tired on the short reps, otherwise OK.

August was my highest mileage month for a long time and also the most consistent period of 3 workouts per week. So far, so good. Minor aches and pains no worse now than they were 5 weeks ago.

Just broke sub 22 on this method.

FWIW I would drop the 5k or VO2 stuff and just focus on sub-T. You could throw some strides or hill strides in on an easy day. Like 6 x 100m or 6 x 20s hills at mile effort with walk back recovery. I like hill strides more than flat. The reason I say drop the 5k work or VO2 work is that, as a high schooler, you’ll probably race most weekends over the next few months. That is your VO2 workout for the week. You don’t need more of it. You have to be okay with sacrificing early season races and think of them like training. They should still be raced and treated as such, but don’t get caught-up in the times early season.

Week 6:
Monday: 2x 2 Mile- 1’ Rec (13:53, avgHR160, MaxHR174 /14:31 -avgHR161, MaxHR173)
Wednesday: 5x 1k- Avg 4:13, AvgHR 160, Max HR178
Saturday: 12x400- Avg 1:32 AvgHR 161 Max HR 182
Total Volume 4:30 + 2 lifting sessions - Highest Running Volume of the training block.

I’ve been doing two 6k or 4 mile sub-T sessions each week, but as shown above this week I did 3 sessions, one at 4 mile, one at 5k, and one at 4.8k. I felt good and recovered after each workout even though I upped the Sub-T and overall volume. The pace on the longer reps still seems too slow and the effort feels relaxed, but when I push the pace I can feel my effort level crossing a line and my HR spiking up towards and above LTHR. So I guess I just need to be patient…400 reps felt great though.

On Monday and Wednesday I tried something different, where I tried to push the first rep to Sub-T effort as fast as I could instead of trying to run at a pace that I thought I could hold constant for the whole workout.ie hold effort constant throughout instead of pace. I definitely got my HR into the zone faster, but I had to slow down a fair bit on subsequent reps to keep my HR in the right zone and I started going over LTHR at the end of the reps.

Also I bought a used Garmin Dual HR chest strap that I’m going to start using next week!

What recoveries are you using for the short reps?

I think it's better to build from the bottom, i.e. not push your first rep too fast already to avoid any oxygen debt and reduce the rate of slowdown on subsequent efforts.

Just cracked sub 20 after 7 hours of running per week and 100 minutes of sub threshold.

This really isn't the double threshold for lower mileage idea of the thread but you are on the right track to what I have my athletes doing. I would wait a little longer to start 5k pace work though but not sure when your state meet is?

Sam - 45" on the 400s, 1' on everything else. I've been trying to decide if it's worth doing longer rest on the reps longer than 1k. I've only been doing 1' b/c that's what the Inge's and sirpoc on the other thread do, but TBH I don't really know the reason behind it.

Jiggy - I agree. I thought as long as I kept my HR in the right range on the first rep it wouldn't matter that much, but i could definitely feel it the rest of the workout.

12x400 @7K with rest 1/2 can be 3.5mmol lactate;

20×400 @7K with rest 1/1 can be a 2.9mmol lactate, as examples.

This rest duration need to be individually adjusted.

For example, 20x400 @5K with 90sec rest my HR may not go above 150 (may be only last 4 reps), but threshold is 165, marathon - 155, but lactate 2.9mmol, so how to follow in this case? 😄 I trust to lactate versus HR data, dilema 👐

Well, a slightly disrupted couple of weeks. I'm counting this as my annual holiday.

Week 6: 75 minutes easy, 45 minutes easy, 15x400 off 60s rest (81s ish), 45 minutes easy. A lingering niggle (sore hip/glute) flared up after the track workout and failed to loosen up during the final easy run. Maybe ran too quick on the track, although it felt pretty easy.

The next 7 days was dominated by travel. Lots of fun, caught up with old friends, met some cool new people, stayed out late, did some business, drank beer, got very little sleep. Went out with a wonderful woman, enjoyed some live music, somehow didn't get COVID, drank more beer. No running. Guess that's the privilege of the hobby jogger.

Final part of this week (week 7): 45 minutes easy, 4x 1 mile tempo (6:15), 70 minutes easy. The glute isn't 100% but much better than last week. Slightly slower running seems OK. First race in a while next weekend so we'll see how it goes. With the week off, I haven't made any progress but I feel like I haven't lost too much fitness either.

Last two weeks

M 3x2k 4:27/km 164 BPM avg

Th 5x1k 4:12/km 165 BPM

Sat 14x400 1:36 163 BPM

weekly total 4:30 running + 0:30 Soccer + 2x lift

M 2x3k 4:19/km 163 BPM

W 6x1k 4:06/km 161 BPM

Sat 15x400 1:31 159 BPM

Weekly total 5:30 + 2x lift

last week was hot everyday, especially Sat, so the times and the HRs were up. this week was cooler and things felt a lot better. Building up the overall and subT volume has got me feeling pretty good. Might run a five mile race next weekend.