Was Bannister really the first sub-4 minute miler?

There isn’t a practical way to prove that no human ran a 4-min mile in the 1700s, so it’s sort of like disproving the existence of god.

Keith Olbermann was a 4:30 miler

If you find yourself agreeing with a moron like Olbermann on anything something has gone horribly wrong in your life.

This is like that guy ten years ago claiming cave men could run faster than Bolt.

We could.

And maybe some caveman kicked an oblong ball through some uprights 67 yards away at some point in the past. Who cares? Records are for in-competition performances with recorded results. Speculating on what may have been done outside of this setting is pointless.

humans actually used to have four wheels and run 200mph this is a fact therefore every world record is invalid

I identify as a sub 4 miler

There have been stories over the years of sub four minute miles run long before Bannister did it. Some of them seem credible, though I can't recall any of them now. Human physiology has not changed for centuries so if we have hundreds of people today capable of running sub four logically such people would have existed decades or centuries ago and so have the means of timing someone. Our ancestors lived much more physical lives than most of us do now so it seems possible to me that someone here and there ran a mile in less than four minutes. BUT none of the accounts of such runs have been validated so Bannister is the first person to have run a mile in under four minutes that can be validated.

"There have been stories over the years of sub four minute miles run long before Bannister did it. Some of them seem credible, though I can't recall any of them now."

solid take

The amount of specific training it takes to even run under 4:20 in the mile is insane. There is no way that a caveman, or any random person throughout history randomly ran a sub 4 mile before Bannister. I bet that the fastest mile that anyone ran before they kept records and actually raced was probably only slightly under 4:50. And by before they kept records, I mean in the 1700s and earlier.

It is conceivable that someone ran a sub four “mile” long ago. A courier, military scout, footman, or pedestrian likely ran from one village to another. The respective villages were known to be a mile apart according to maps or surveys of the time (likely 1400-1500 meters if measured with modern equipment). On a day with a strong tailwind and a 100 foot drop on the road between the two villages, this man covered the “mile” in an amazingly swift time of just over 3 and 7/8 minutes timed by a horse rider that was alongside. This achievement became part of the local lore and was largely forgotten until someone found an old newspaper or diary much later.

Was a true sub four possible? Yes. Did an accurately measured, flat sub four mile happen? Likely, not.

true but...

in theory, the swedes gunder hägg n arne andersson were prolly the first sub4 milers.

"the mile" here in sweden is not a big thing. not as it is in the anglosaxian world . we go by meters. hence the 1500 m is "the big thing" here and if i recall correct the aforementioned gents ran around 3.43 min which with all respect shud equal a sub 4 min mile. people here in sweden had/have no concept of the "sub 4 mile" or the magic surroundin a mile/the mile. otherwise im pretty sure hägg n andersson cud have reached it (easily).

is my game.

Glen Cunningham story.

i disagree. i ran around 4:05 min (1500m) after my first few months (about 6) of serious training, but was hit by injury a lot during that time. yes, im talented but by no way a genetic freak or supertalented. a supertalented or a genetic freak (whatever u want) cud most probably run a 4.20 min mile off, say soccer training. i think kaki ran a 3.45 min 1500 m with little or no real running training. im pretty sure there have been human beings with freakish ability to run fast in the past. prolly even more so back then cos people were much more active back in the days so they had some "base" stamina. now a days we more or less have to start from scratch.

Since Bannister's time has there been anybody who has shown up from outside the scene, having done their own training and dropped a sub 4? If not it makes me think it's unlikely that somebody did it before then with no one watching.

any Tarahumara man over the past millenium could have broken 4 minutes, probably thousands of them have done it. It's not even a big deal to them. They are such pure runners.

Walter George ran a 4:12 mile (and a 4:10 mile in a handicap race) in the 1880s with very unspecific training. The training he is best known for is the 100-Up exercise which appears to be a high knee drill.

Walter George still raced and competed several times before going sub 4:20. He was entering meets and training to the best of his knowledge. Although not ideal that is specific training. Lets go back to ancient times, I promise you that some random Spartan Soldier is not randomly breaking 4:50 in the mile off his war training, or a random Caveman hunting for food sprinting a barefoot sub 4 mile.