Top 10 High Schoolers (Track and XC separated)

I put mid distance in the title, but I'm not considering primarily 800m runners. No Flatt, no Sumner, no Granville.

The latter wasn't in high school. Hmm. Might move him back a bit. But he also has an argument to move up on the track list.

Bumping this following this outdoor season. I think the XC list remains the same. I think I would have the track list look something like this now:

1. Ryun (3:55 mile)

2. Lindgren (8:40 2 mile, 13:44 5000)

3. Kessler (1:48 800, 3:34 1500 (3:51), 3:57i mile, 8:39 2 mile)

4. Verzbicas (3:59 mile, 8:29 2 mile)

5. Webb (1:47 800, 3:53 mile)

6. Simmons (4:02a mile, 8:40a 2 mile, 13:25 5000)

7. Birnbaum (3:37 1500 (3:55), 8:34 2 mile)

8. Griffith (3:57 mile, 8:31 2 mile)

9. Hunter (1:48 800, 3:57i mile, 7:59i 3000 (8:37))

10. Sahlman (1:48 800, 3:56 mile, 8:36 2 mile)

Crazy what it takes to be top 10 now. I'd consider putting Simmons over Webb, but I think it would rely too heavily on conversions.

Chapa needs to be on this list. 28:30 would be insane today, never mind 50 years ago. Liquori and Danielson also deserve some credit for running sub-4:00 in the 60s, they were overshadowed by Ryun but still great runners. Rupp also needs to be on the track list. 13:37 was really special when he did it. Hunter was also better than Birnbaum and Griffith, that 7:59 was flat track (converts to 7:53 by NCAA conversion) and he got Lyme's disease outdoors but still ran 3:58 that season.

Reina, Goucher, and Solinsky being heavily underrated in XC. Fernandez and Young being heavily overrated in XC, not a national title between the two of them, just a fast time at the CA state meet course. Hunter also should be included, dominated everything, massive winning margin at FL, no way can you have Nico Young 3rd when Hunter had basically the same senior season (although both should be behind Fisher, Cheserek, Goucher, Reina, and Solinsky imo).

My lists:

Track:

1. Ryun

2. Lindgren

3. Kessler

4. Webb

5. Verzbicas

6. Simmons

7. Chapa

8. Liquori

9. Danielson

10. Hunter

XC:

1. Ritz

2. Verzbicas

3. Reina

4. Virgin

5. Lindgren

6. Cheserek

7. Goucher

8. Solinsky

9. Fisher

10. Hunter

How isn’t Webb #3 at the very minimum?

Females under rated here.

Ritz doesn't count, L Carnitine.

You have a good point about Chapa, its just unfortunate no one else runs the 10k so we have nothing to compare it with other than conversions. Very easy to focus too much on milers here. It probably works out to be what, 13:40ish? I guess he should be there then. Not quite in Lindgren territory though.

Birnbaum I could see moving down and Hunter up, sure. Griffith's resume is fairly similar to Verzbicas. 2 seconds faster over a mile, 2 seconds slower over 2. None of the 4 races were really ideal conditions/pacing, but Lukas gets more credit for doing it 12 years ago and being a national record holder.

For cross I may have been too biased towards recent performances. I feel like the 2019 nxn field was very hyped up and no one was close to Nico at any point in the race. Maybe earlier nationals were like that too and I just don't remember/didn't watch the really older ones.

I tried giving German and Leo the benefit of the doubt and not have 1 bad race at a bad time not define their entire resume. For German, 3 individual national champions, the former 5k record holder, and another guy who was probably better than all 4 of those guys went up against 14:24 twice a year and it stood up every time.

Kessler is faster indoors and out, and a better 2 mile performance which was basically a workout until the last lap

LV has a similarly impressive national record, which unlike Webb's hasn't been equalled. 3:59 back then and 1:47 are similar enough to keep him over Webb in my opinion, but I wouldn't be mad with them switched either

Uh, no national title? Did you miss Young winning NXN in 2019? You know, something listed in the OP and one of his most well known HS achievements...?

As for the rest of your post, I'll just say that 28:30 is about as impressive as Rupp's 13:37, but still not even on the same level as Kessler's 3:34 or Webb's 3:53.

Lex Young, one of the younger twin brothers of Nico, not Nico Young. No way either of the twins (Lex/Leo) should be ahead of Rupp for highschool career.

Except Rupp took steroids in HS. That should automatically disqualify him since we know for a fact he did it.

LEO, not Nico.

I expected to see Craig Virgin on the list. His 8:40 2 mile, championships in track and xc always seemed at the top to me. Not quite Lindgren, but close.

yeah sure the mr woodbridge is short guy

Definitely a good argument for him.

With comparisons across eras you always just have to make assumptions and they very well could be wrong. His detweller record stood up to LV, but it fell to Methner who came up way short at nationals. It (and his other accomplishments) must be graded on how those times/feats would be different if he were running 40 years later, and that's tough to do.

Didn't Methner win FL and come 2nd at NXN behind a guy who's also in the top 10 conversation? Not sure I'd call that coming up way short at nationals. He was pretty darn good.

Obviously tough to compare across 40 years, but it feels pretty obvious that Craig Virgin would have beaten Josh Methner in 2019, and given how good that guy was, it also feels pretty obvious Virgin deserves a place in the top 10.

Methner lost to Nico Young by 14 seconds at NXN. In his interview he said young was at another level than him. Mether broke Craig Virgin course record. Nico Young ran 14:28 at Woodward Park and 13:39 at Woodbridge.