He got smoked in the 10,000 with Kinkaid and Klecker. He did run a 2:08xx but that was on a super fast course. He has shown no ability to run a super fast time. 27:25 in Super shoes is worth close to a 28:00 in non-super shoes. The guy is the equivalent of Kate Tuhoy as a very good collegiate runnner but nothing on the professional world stage. His PR in marathon just might be 2:08 and 27:25 in 10K.
He wore spikes, on a high school track, and I'm not sure what your point about having 4 pacers is about, they don't run for him.
He is a very good college runner ... nothing more. He is NOT an elite runner. Elite runners run 2:03 - he is more than a mile back. The elite runners have already showered and left the finish area by the time Mantz finishes.
Cam Levins is Elite, just got 5th in a quality field, with a 2:05. 2:03 is the cream of the crop, elite starts right around 2:08. Sub Elite starts just slower than the world standard, 2:10-12 ish. Amateurs are attempting to qualify for the trials, so 2:18 ish.
He got smoked in the 10,000 with Kinkaid and Klecker. He did run a 2:08xx but that was on a super fast course. He has shown no ability to run a super fast time. 27:25 in Super shoes is worth close to a 28:00 in non-super shoes. The guy is the equivalent of Kate Tuhoy as a very good collegiate runnner but nothing on the professional world stage. His PR in marathon just might be 2:08 and 27:25 in 10K.
For some reason Letsrun is obsessed with this guy.
Nothing in his results up until now suggests he will be great. Very good but not great.
He is a 26 year old in the super shoes era with 13:11, 27:25, 60:55, and 2:08:16 PRs. Obviously very good but we need to be realistic about his ceiling.
At the same age, Rupp had an Olympic Silver and had run 12:58.
Cam Levins is Elite, just got 5th in a quality field, with a 2:05. 2:03 is the cream of the crop, elite starts right around 2:08. Sub Elite starts just slower than the world standard, 2:10-12 ish. Amateurs are attempting to qualify for the trials, so 2:18 ish.
Elite is 2:03 to 2:04ish. Finishing 30 seconds behind 2 Americans who will never do anything on the world stage is pedestrian. Mantz could be consiidered a hobby jogger.
He got smoked in the 10,000 with Kinkaid and Klecker. He did run a 2:08xx but that was on a super fast course. He has shown no ability to run a super fast time. 27:25 in Super shoes is worth close to a 28:00 in non-super shoes. The guy is the equivalent of Kate Tuhoy as a very good collegiate runnner but nothing on the professional world stage. His PR in marathon just might be 2:08 and 27:25 in 10K.
OP, can you please cite the name of the poster or posters who have disparaged Mantz and declared that Mantz was on testosterone medication while in HS and was coached by a guy who travelled with testosterone in his bag and has been banned from the sport?
He went for 27:0x and faded back to 27:25. Probably was fit enough for something in the 27:1X's if paced for that. Not bad for marathon training, 6 weeks out from Boston
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Maybe a little harsh but I do agree with the premise. Mantz is talented but not a super talent that is going to compete for WMM wins. Still a great competitor but I think we need to take a step back on him being the great savior of USA marathoning.
For some reason Letsrun is obsessed with this guy.
Nothing in his results up until now suggests he will be great. Very good but not great.
He is a 26 year old in the super shoes era with 13:11, 27:25, 60:55, and 2:08:16 PRs. Obviously very good but we need to be realistic about his ceiling.
At the same age, Rupp had an Olympic Silver and had run 12:58.
I've read quite a few threads about this guy and the court of public opinion considered him quite a bit older than this a couple years ago. I remember a post about his 17 grandchildren. One poster prominent on Mantz threads goes by 'they're grandpas'. Posts such as "BYU's success is all the more impressive if they're all over 40" invariably surface. His actual, literal, provable age must have gradually gone up, but just going by MB threads it seems to have gone down quite a bit.
Unrelated: Salazar comparison is excellent. This wasn't a bad resume prior to Mantz' birth. For perspective, doesn't Webb have a faster 10000 PB? For the record, I have no beef with BYU and would defend anything they do as far as runners in their 30s and 40s or whatever they get accused of...but I don't like Mantz and root against him.
He got smoked in the 10,000 with Kinkaid and Klecker. He did run a 2:08xx but that was on a super fast course. He has shown no ability to run a super fast time. 27:25 in Super shoes is worth close to a 28:00 in non-super shoes. The guy is the equivalent of Kate Tuhoy as a very good collegiate runnner but nothing on the professional world stage. His PR in marathon just might be 2:08 and 27:25 in 10K.
OP, can you please cite the name of the poster or posters who have disparaged Mantz and declared that Mantz was on testosterone medication while in HS and was coached by a guy who travelled with testosterone in his bag and has been banned from the sport?
Are you referring to the same guy who 1.) ran faster than you and all of the runners you coached and 2.) as a coach, produced better results than you by coaching a runner to become the best american distance runner and two olympic medals?
The same guy who beats your personal running accomplishments (and your brothers' too) AND beats your coaching accomplishments?