Road Racing & Training Thread: Week Ending 1/29/2023

Weird week with travel to Texas, ridiculous weather and other work obligations only allowing for 1 workout and not as much volume.

Compensated with a pretty solid long run though. Also got to take my 5 year old to BU for his first track meet. We saw 2 ARs and got to slap Woody Kincaids hand! He had a blast which made me really happy.

M - am) 8 @ 7:40, pm) 2.5 @ 8:20
T - 9 @ 6:51
W - 8 @ 7:19
Th - am) 8 @ 7:28, pm) 5 @ 7:53
Fr - 8 @ 7:41

Sa - 22 @ 6:33 as 10k (6:53 avg)/ 1k (3:36)/8k (6:37 avg)/1k (3:31)/5k (6:33 avg)/1k (3:27)/3k (6:26 avg)/1k (3:21)/1.5k (6:22 avg)/1k (3:19). Felt really good actually. Just kind of cruised in to the finish without a lot of distress.

Su - 8 @ 8:22

Total - 78 miles

HHW - that 22 looks pretty good. And how awesome that you were able to share that meet with your kid!

***

Female, 48, 5'4", 108
PRs 5:25/18:51/38:56/1:02:28/1:24:08/2:57:42
Recent best times: 5K in 21:08, 15K in 66:14, half-marathon in 1:34:05, Marathon in 3:24:40

51 miles running, 3 hours pool-running, and ~1000 yards swimming.
M: 10 miles on treadmill, including 6 "Iwo Jima" hills [2:00 at 2% incline and 8.7 mph; 90 second jog; 30 seconds at 9.3-9.5 mph; 60 second jog], followed with leg strengthwork.
T: Upper body weights/core and 90 minutes pool-running.
W: Streaming yoga and 10 miles very easy (9:29) plus drills and two hill sprints.
Th: 90 minutes pool-running and upper body weights/core.
F: 10 miles, including a 5K tempo in 22:23 (7:22/7:09/7:00/0:52); followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yard recovery swimming.
Sa: 10 miles very easy (9:16) plus drills; yoga in afternoon.
Su: 11 miles, including 8 Iwo Jima hills (2:00 powerful up a 2% incline, then 90 second jog; 40 second downhill stride and then 60 second jog to bottom). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 meters recovery swimming.

This was my second week back from the Houston Marathon, and also my first full week on Rytary, which has my legs feeling really good and coordinated and bouncy.

Since my legs felt fully recovered, I went ahead and introduced some faster running with a short tempo book-ended by two hill workouts. Definite improvement over where I was - my gait is more powerful and bouncy, I feel more comfortable on downhills (though still room for improvement there), and I'm running much more smoothly when running in crowds or in the dark - two situations that triggered my neuro issues in the past. Notably, my hill workout on Sunday was one of the fastest that I've done in several months (which probably shouldn't matter that much, since the workout is not about speed per se).

I've got some races on the schedule for the next few months - a 5K in February, a half-marathon in March, and the Cherry Blossom 10 Miler in April. For the next few weeks, I'm not going to do any long runs - with two marathons in the last four months on my legs, I don't have a pressing need to do long runs right now. Instead, I'm going to focus on intervals and tempos, and sub in hill workouts on Sundays to improve my gait. All with the goal of improving my gait and my speed, now that the neuro issues seem to be improving.

HHW - Great you were able to take the kid to the BU meet. My 14-month old has a little time before the indoctrination begins… :)

————————————

M38, 5’10”, low 160s

Road bests | 2023
5k 15:20 (2006) | .
10k - 31:15 (2008) | .
10M - 51:52 (2009) | .
Half - 1:09:01 (2009) | .
Full - 2:25:14 (2019) | .

Mo: 8 @ 7:13
Tu: 8 @ 7:54 stroller
We: 5 @ 6:43
Th: 5 @ 6:36
Fr: 8 @ 5:37 progression*
Sa: 6 @ 7:23
Su: 10 @ 7:18

Total: 50 miles

*Splits 6:14, 5:41, 5:40, 5:37, 5:30, 5:29, 5:24, 5:23. Got lazy about my planned 5T, but fell into a workout after all. Last mile was a little challenging.

Friday hit my legs kinda hard, so didn’t manage a long run over the weekend.

darkwave - You’re not doing RnR DC by chance? I know you dislike the course, but you’re welcome to stop by for a post-race beer or whatever if you do. (We live 400m from the finish—still have to sign up, but plan to.)

Male, 33
PRs: 2:14, 4:51, 16:46, 36:17, 1:19:48

M - 5.3 @ 8:20 with 8 strides,
T - 2.8 up with 4 strides, 4 x 800 (2:42, 2:44, 2:46, 2:57) with >200 jog (1:46-1:50), 2.0 down
W - 8.0 @ 8:43 on the treadmill
Th - Off
F - 4.3 @ 8:49
Sa - Off
Su - Off

Weekly Total: 25 miles
YTD Total: 169 miles

Disappointing week here. I've had some on and off issues running on the indoor track this winter. The tight turns aggravate some muscles around the outside of my left ankle. On Tuesday this forced me bail on a planned 6 x 800 workout. In the future I might have to skip and/or limit indoor workouts.

Wednesday:
We didn’t take our chances running on the snowy roads so treadmill workout was on the schedule. This sounded relatively simple. 20 minutes easy, 10 minutes @ 5:10 pace then 10 @ 5:45, then 10 @ 5:25, 10 minute cooldown
Well I felt like I was fighting for my life on that first rep. I thought to myself about 6 minutes in, I think this treadmill may throw me off. Another workout where I didn’t know if I was gonna hold but after 5 minutes of essentially catching my breath at 5:45 pace, the rest of it was a jog. The last set felt really comfortable. Treadmill workouts are hard at anything faster than 5:15...

Saturday:
That fairly pretty controlled. 2 minutes felt that toughest but absolutely manageable.Progressed without any issues.
5:01-4:50-4:43
4:55-4:51-4:34
4:55-4:45-4:51(bad sats on the 30)
4:51-4:38-4:26
4:51-4:38-4:27
Best I’ve felt in a couple weeks. Backing off on the mileage was a clutch move.

Scheduled has changed a bunch here. Skipping NYC half to run fast at Project 13.1. Also adding in a sub 15 attempt in the middle of February. After the 3k, coach wanted me to find a fast 5k to run.

Running Goal: Continue sub5 mile streak in 2023 (currently 12, 2022 was 4:51)
Next Race: 10km skate XC skiing Tuesday, 33km skate XC skiing Sunday

Had a cold most of this week so just did easy volume and no intensity

M: 55min classic skiing + strength*
T: 65min skate skiing + strength
W: 30min run + Ext. Drills** + strength
Th: 60min classic skiing + 50min skate skiing + strength
F: strength
S: 60min classic skiing
S: 50min run + 90min snowshoe
Run Total - 80minutes (11 Badger miles***)

*Easy strength style - 2x(15 KB swings, 5x1 arm KB press, 10x TRX pike), 2x(spectrum lateral lunge, DB row)
**Extensive drills - 1x40m Fwd skip, Bk skip, L/R Shuffle, skip-skip-lunge, Bk reaching walk, L/R carioca, 2x30m Skip distance, bent leg bound, 2x20m A march, A skip, A double skip, A triple stick, A run, ankle dribble, calf dribble, knee dribble, dribble rise, dribble fall, 2-4 ~80m strides. Takes me ~20 minutes. Idea is to supplement my low volume running with lots of "thoughtful" foot contacts to prepare for future running.
*** Using 7:30 pace for easy math

Male, 29, 6’4”, 150 lbs
Goals: Sub 2:40 Boston

Mn - 10 @ 7:55 + Strides
Tu - 5x1mi + WU/WD = 11
Wd - AM: 7 @ 8:05s, PM: 4 @ 7:15s + Strength Work
Th - 20 min T + WU/WD + Strides = 10
Fr - 11.25 @ 8:00s
Sa - 13.25 @ 8:30s (with 1500ft of elv)
Su - 8 @ 7:40s

Total - 75
Tu - 6:13 6:05 6:04 6:03 6:05 with 70s recovery
Th - 20 @ 6:18s, Some hills and wind
General - Happy to get something that looks like a real week of training in, workouts were slow but the volume was there, mileage was good not great.

Steady running week.

No workouts, nothing special although I did allow my HR to creep up to around 150-155 bpm at the end (last 10-15 minutes) of a handful of the runs including the long run.

Mon - 75 min

Tue - 75 min

Wed - 60 min

Thur - 90 min

Fri - 60 min

Sat - 120 min

Sun - 60 min

Total Miles - 72.11

Total Duration - 9:03

Avg Mile Pace - 7:32

I noticed my Watts (Stryd) to HR ratio improved slightly from the beginning of the week (sore legs) to the end of the week (less sore legs). So I got that going for me.

Trying to decide on upcoming races preferably within driving distance of South Dakota.

Male, 26, 5’9", 130lbs
PRs: 5k 17:47 (2022), 10km 38:27, Half Marathon: 1:17:53 (2021), Marathon: 2:45:27 (2022)
Next Races: Boston Marathon, Fall Ultra
Future Goals: Sub 2:40 Marathon, Sub 1:16 HM, Sub 17:30 5k, Sub 5:00 Mile
Mileage: 91
Wednesday track session and Saturday on the treadmill this week. 3-2-1 minutes on in crazy weather on Wednesday made for 5:50s very hard. That and probably staff lunch before it made for a tough workout (Domino's is my weakness). Saturday I was told to do this workout on the treadmill to focus on dialing in pace, it felt a bit easier than expected so I upped the speed on the treadmill a bit after getting halfway through each set. Was pretty sore from purposefully hitting some rolling hills and downhills. We've been really keeping Sunday long runs easy and it now no longer phases me to just chill for a bit and get out the door for 18. I used to get pretty anxious about it but for some reason since coming back in the end of December, I've just not really had a lot of the negative/anxious feelings. Two strength training sessions and signed up for a half in March. Still wishing they'd turn the water fountains on the WOD or 4-Mile trail back on.
Monday - Off
Tuesday - PM Run: 12 Miles - 7:22PM
Wednesday - AM Run: 6 Miles - 7:54, PM Workout: 13.14 Miles = 3 up - 7:31 , 6.88 Miles = 5 x 3(5:51, 5:56, 6:02, 5:51, 5:56)/ 2 (5:46, 5:45, 5:51, 5:47, 5:50)/ 1 (5:31, 5:53, 5:46, 5:28, 5:30 ) w/ 1 Jog, 3.24 Down - 7:46
Thursday - Am Run: 5 Miles - 7:51, PM Run: 12 Miles - 7:23
Friday - AM Run: 8 Miles - 7:51
Saturday - AM Workout -11 Miles = 3 Up - 7:45, 4.9 Miles = 10 min HMP (5:50-5:47) -> 10 min 50k (6:30-6:27) -> 10 min MP (6:10-6:07), 3.1 Down - 7:26, PM Run - 6 Miles - 7:58
Sunday - AM Long Run - 18 Miles - 7:37

Hey man, I think it's possible the treadmill was going faster than you thought. I think I had a conversation with Darkwave about this sometime earlier and I think she knows a lot more about this than me so I would defer to her. I think she has a really nice product that measures the actual belt speed if memory serves???

According to my calibrated Stryd, my home treadmill is dead nuts on for about 10 minutes then it starts to "drift" to faster speeds despite being at the same setting on the display. For example, if I set the speed to 7.7 mph. It will split the first mile in exactly 7:48 (correct for 7.7 mph) but will eventually drift to the low 7:30's without changing the setting at all. I suspect this happens due to the machine heating up and not having a super tightly controlled feedback loop.

However, on much nicer machines, I've seen no drift in speed (according to my Stryd) at ALL. In other words, it would split 7:48, 7:48, 7:48,... indefinitely.

In my experience, I've seen some treadmill's report WAY faster than my Stryd and some WAY slower. The nicer machines seem to be within +/- 1 to 2 seconds per mile of the Stryd. In all cases, the Stryd reported speed "feels" the equivalent of outside to me and my heart rate agrees.

HOWEVER, I will say that high treadmill speeds also feel VERY scary. So maybe it's just that. Anything over 10 mph feels flat out frightening to me. I don't know exactly why that is but I think it's a mental psyche out thing for me.

M 29, 5'9 175

Goals: sub 120 half, sub 1630 5k

Looks like I'm closer 122/123 shape shape right now. 4 weeks out from my half. We'll see what happens. For only being back 5-6 months, I'm pretty happy with where I'm at though 🙃

Ran a 5 mile charity race on Saturday, took a wrong turn, ran 5.2. Won it averaging 606 pace. Wanted to push under 6 minute pace but was struggling to push harder because I was by myself after mile 2. Tiny race but still counts for my first road race win since high school lol

M- 5 trails @840

T- 10 treadmill tempo 8/7/6/7/8/7/6/530/630/730

W- 3 with stroller @830

Th- 8.3hills @754

F- 3.2 @813

Sa- 8 total, 5mile race @606

Su- 14.8 @824

Weekly total: 51.7

YTD: 205🏃, 193🚴🏻

A win is a win!!! Seriously, be happy with that. If 6:06 was good enough to win, I don't think it makes you less of a competitor for not running it at maximum effort.

Isn't taking wrong turns in a race annoying? I'm always terrified that I'm going to take a wrong turn.

Luckily we only went like 150meters before someone yelled that we were going the wrong way 😂

Really.. a year ago, I never thought I'd get back to where I am now fitness wise so everything is a win from here 🙃

Thinking I can hit some big goals (for me... I'm a sloth compared to most of you) this year :)

I'm not doing the half (am doing One City half two weeks before) but I am strongly considering the 5K, and then staying to cheer the half-marathon after. Thanks for the invite - I may take you up on that.

It's called a Runn Sensor. Costs $100. You attach it to your treadmill and sync it to your Garmin like a foot pod, and then it reports the belt speed to your Garmin. I haven't had good luck with Stryd on the treadmill (or in general), but the Runn Sensor is great. The only issue is that you can't really bring it with you to the gym.

I do agree that treadmills can vary in speed, and what you see on the dashboard may not be the speed you are running. Additionally, I'm not surprised to hear that you guys struggle with the faster speeds on the treadmill. I suspect that it's less psychological and more that the treadmill belt is a compressed space, which makes lengthening your stride feel awkward and scary. My hunch is that the taller the runner and the longer the runner's stride, the more awkward treadmill running is.

I have the advantage of being short with proportionally short legs for my height, and I also bought a treadmill with the widest belt available. Thus, treadmill running is likely less awkward for me.

I'll also add that I think treadmill training is best treated as a very specific form of running cross-training. By that, I mean that it's best to structure treadmill workouts as blocks of time at a specific effort, rather than by miles. 8x2:30 or 8x3:00 instead of 8x800m. That way, speed inaccuracies don't throw you off.

Question 1: about fueling for long races: I'm doing a 31k XC ski race this weekend which I expect will take me ~2 hours.

I haven't practiced fueling at all, except for water and a granola bar during some of my longer training sessions. Aid stations will have: water, energy drink (Gatorade), simple snacks and energy gels.

Should I just stick to the gatorade for fluid+sugar, because I've never even tried a gel in my life?

Aid stations are at: 7k, 15k, 22k, and 26k. Should I stop at all of them?

Question 2: I start coaching HS track in about a month. Any recommendations for a free training log app? Final surge and training peaks are both out of budget.

HHW: So cool that you got to attend the BU meet!

Darkwave - Again super happy the new meds are working. Really hits home that speed is "electrical" (ie neural), not as much muscular or energy system dependent

sub6 - Nice progression

notarobot - I've never been able to train on an indoor track w/o getting injured. I live in Madison and the U of Wisconsin team avoids their flat 200m track and does most of their workouts outside in the winter.

BaM - Congrats on the big 3k PR

RS - Nice first week back of workouts

BHV - Solid volume

AFF - I'm not a marathon expert, but a chill 18 probably means your fit!

JC - congrats on the win. Bummer about the missed turn

darkwave - thanks for the refresher. That totally makes sense about the compressed space. Just feels freaky.

You mentioned you don't have good luck with Stryd on the treadmill. Can you elaborate on that? Perhaps I have overconfidence in it's reporting?

Not to jinx it because I was about to reenter here a few weeks ago and then my calf seized up on my final interval…Brutal. Looks like after some reluctant rest, I am hopefully past it.

M34, 5’10’’/160
Recent Marks: 4:48 (5th Ave Mile ‘22), 17:51 (Chilmark 5K ‘22), 3:05 something (MV Marathon ‘22)
Upcoming Races: Tobacco Road Half (Goal ~ beat 1:24 PB at very least), Jersey City Marathon (BQ)

Last 7 days:
TU: 13.9 @ 7:27 (figured I’d test out the gears a bit and ran a 2.4 mile segment at 6:24 pace in Central Park, included Cat Hill which was not easy)
W: 6.2R @ 8:21
TH: 7.4 @ 7:38 ft. 2x2 mile with 2 min rest on the lower res (hit 12:43 and 12:42 which is solid as it’s not a quick surface)
F: 6.55R @ 9:19 (easy with wife)
SA: 6.7 @ 7:42
SU: OFF (was feeling a bit run down on Friday and had gotten back into it pretty aggressively post-calf injury, so first day off in 10)
M: 15.1 @ 7:24 (Extended the faster finish to 3.89 miles at a 6:31 clip, felt very controlled)

Seeing this is around 54 miles in the last 7 days. Pleased by that. I was really down in the dumps after having to take 5 days off running for my calf, but now I think my goals could very well be in sight if I’m smart and stay away from injuries.