Here’s the actual transcript as it pertains to the issue of trans inclusion:
“GROSS: I also want to ask a question about trans athletes. You know, if you're saying that, you know, men's bodies develop in different ways that favor, like, you know, strength and endurance and that women's bodies, as they prepare for the possibility of motherhood, don't function in the same way as male bodies - so given that, if somebody is a trans woman and developed for years as a male and maybe went through puberty as a male and then becomes a trans woman, did they have certain advantages, physically, hormonally, that will give them advantages in the sport that they've chosen?
FLESHMAN: That's a really good question. And it's obviously a very contentious, complicated issue that we're wrestling with in culture right now. And I have evolved my perspective a lot on this subject from a place of defensiveness of what I viewed as women's sports from a sex-based perspective to being very pro-inclusion of trans athletes in every aspect of life, including sports. But that took a little bit of a journey because I am so familiar with sex-based differences in sport. I've lived it. I've watched it. They exist - that to have some trans rights activists in this space denying that those exist or of - not - kind of being afraid of looking at that science or looking to debunk it created a lot of resistance in me, and I see it in a lot of the athletes that I have raced against over time. Or it's a thing that - we have to acknowledge that sex-based difference exists and hold that in one hand and hold in the other hand that inclusion is extremely important and that our definition of fairness is so narrow.
If we're only looking at fairness as, you know, who's competing in the Olympic Games and who has experienced what kind of puberty and whatever - you can do that if you want to. You can spend all your time focused on that. But fairness is about a lot more than that. And we can hold the sex-based differences and still be for inclusion. And I think that's actually critical to the inclusion of trans people is not denying the science that we know, not denying the lived experiences of female-bodied people but just deciding that even given some of those things, we still choose to compete together to be an inclusive space and experience all the benefits of having trans people on our teams, in our lives and competing alongside us.“
Yes Rojo, you’ll need to interview her to understand if she puts any limits on being inclusive in this regard. Without speaking to her, I think it’s unfair to insinuate that her statements don’t reflect her real feelings or were made because she’s “afraid” of speaking her mind on NPR or elsewhere. We should take what she says at face value, that she’s well aware of the biological differences between males and females, but at least in certain settings at least, “inclusion” trumps “fairness.” She’s not the only elite female athlete who feels this way, eg Candace Parker and others.
Anyway, Lauren certainly knows all about the sex differences, and really a major focus of hers is the damage done to biological females, both physical and psychological injury, because of the denial by athletes themselves, coaches and society in general of those differences in an effort to maximize female athletic performance. I think her main point is that starving, purposefully or inadvertently working to reduce your breasts or hips or avoid your period in pursuit of athletic accomplishment is a form of abuse and misogyny, especially when encouraged by coaches and trainers and agents, etc.