Marathon last 6 miles

Would be good to know what you've run for the HM and 10k?

What was your mileage like before starting the plan over the last couple of years. For me, it was consistent mileage for a couple of years that made me able to finish strongly.

Half marathon in 1:25 and 10k 38:09

Just been starting running regularly in the last two years. Average around 40/50 a week then around 60 average for this block, 3 weeks at 70.

It's all about building up the strength in your legs. Via doing more mileage and on the long runs running longer. For example once every 3-4 weeks in the build up running easy for 2.5-3 hours and every other week doing something like 10 miles easy + 10 miles up tempo or fartlek. Also if you live near the mountains hitting the trails getting vert really helped my legs with the latter stages of the marathon.

I do not know the Pfitz Plan, but a couple things:

1. When your goal was sub 3, you ran 10-30k too fast. If you ran 42:30ish you might have gotten the sub3 as I am sure you would not have crashed as bad as you did (46' 10k from 30-40).

2. Mileage is one thing, specific training an other thing. Did you do at least 1 or 2 3-hour runs? Did you do long progressions, ending with close to MP and/or long tempo runs?

Pikachu

Try some progression runs.

being able to run 1/3 easy 1/3 regular marathon pace 1/3 fast

watch evans chebet anc benson kipruto

both ran very very well from Bc to finish (last 6 miles)

Could be a few things, but I’d say focus on strength training, fueling properly, and doing progression runs.

There are so many factors that go into a marathon training plan. Number of miles per week, what the workouts were, etc... Then there's the race itself. Fueling, pacing.

A 1:25 half suggests you can go under 3. But it'll be close. If you can handle 60 to 70 mile weeks regularly, do that. Long runs in the 20 mile range, with a 10-12 mile warmup, 6-8 mile marathon pace tempo, followed by a 2 mile cooldown - teaches your legs to run while tired. Also, do you run every day? Even if it's an easier run, training your body/mind to run on really tired legs also helps.

As far as day of race, if you felt dizzy, that can be a salt/hydration/fuel imbalance. Unless the weather was super hot or humid (which if the race was yesterday, I doubt), then you need to look at what you're taking in during the run. And I agree with the above poster about pacing. 3:00 pace is 6:52. A 2:55 pace is 6:41 and your half/10K times suggest you are not in that kind of shape.

Next marathon - make sure you are running every day, vary workouts and include the long warmup/late in the long run tempo idea, make sure you are fueling properly and practicing fueling during long runs, and be a lot more strict with your pacing. Better to run that 6:41 pace in the last 5-10K when you know you can sustain it to the finish, than at the 10 or 20K marker.

I wish you luck, good recovery, and healthy training to your next one!

There really are 2 half's to the marathon the first 20 Miles and the last 6.2 Miles. I can recall when I use to race hitting the 20 Mile split in 1:42-1:43 which is 2:13-2:14 pace and finishing in 2:23:16. If a marathon was only 20 miles long I would have been golden but I was never able to put together a solid last 10k.

I think you should take a look at your fueling plan. Goals should be 60-90g carb/hour, ~24oz fluid/hr (+/- 8oz), and ~1000mg sodium for every 32oz.

The pacing might have been a touch aggressive in the middle but I like the slower start & progression through 30k. It's not like those 3 10k splits went in reverse. That's the right way to run a marathon. Everyone who has posted has given good advice in terms of long runs. Pfitz 12/70 should be plenty with the long tempos + medium long runs to go sub-3 with your PRs. I would take the 12/70 and probably add in more threshold sessions + some longer long runs. Plus some fast finish long run stuff. Instead of 22 miles easy do 15 easy + 5 @ marathon pace + 2 easy. Run marathon pace well into your long runs in weeks with solid mileage.

But I really think just being a little more on top of fuel would have gotten you there.

If you slow way down the last 25% of the race you either went out too fast (most common), or didn't run enough mileage/long long runs to be prepared for the total marathon distance, or you didn't take in enough calories (400-600 calories depending on how fast you're running). If you fueled decently well, then that leaves you with most likely you went out too fast for what you were capable of, or you didn't train enough mileage to be able to run strong for beyond 20 miles. Blowing up at 20 miles is like running a strong 1200 meters in a mile and running a terrible last lap, since a 10k is about 25% of the marathon just like the last lap of the mile is about 25% of the race. If you are running a pace a little too fast for what you can handle, you're going to blow up that last lap, you're going to blow up that last 6.2 miles. So unless you're taking zero calories, I wouldn't really blame fueling, you went out too fast and were not in control anymore between half marathon to 20 miles and blew up.

Just for another perspective — at face value you ran a very good marathon. A good rule of thumb is HM X 2 + 10 and that’s almost exactly what you got. Sub 3 would have been very impressive given your other PRs.

I think maybe you didn’t do anything wrong at all, and if you stick to it for a few more years you’ll get there.

I basically have those exact PRs from my peak days a few years back. You'll improve in the marathon with experience. Sub 3 is a little tough based off your times at shorter distances but possible with some improvement. Even going out 10 seconds too fast can cause you to blow up at the end. I'd resist the urge to bank time early and aim for a slightly slower pace in the first half and then if you're feeling well halfway through, drop the hammer and see what you're capable of. Conditioning is one thing but it takes some discipline to hold back and maximize every last bit of energy.

Relax. 3:03 is very close. It was probably something simple like not drinking enough.

You were in 3.02 shape, but you blew it!

My first marathon I made the mistake of thinking I could "run" it. Felt great at the half, fine at 16, started to grind around 18, noticeably slowed by 20, shuffled in the last six miles, passed by many the last three miles. Managed an extremely labored sprint that final 200 on the Hayward track. Cramped up horribly with 50 meters to go. Since then, made a focused effort to go lighter than easy for the first 15, start working closer to 20, hydrate at every stop, and eat gels around the half. The final six miles were never again as hard as that painful first marathon. And I'm around your time.

I would try longer long runs. Not even in terms of mileage, but time. 3 hours is a long time so I would consistently be putting in long runs 2hr15-2h30 nice and easy. You have to get your body used to running hard for a long time without stopping from a physical and mental standpoint. Getting used to the time on feet can be just as important as pace so it's okay to go super slow. When you've already run hard for 2 hours already, you're body starts to wonder why it isn't taking a break! Not because of pace, because of time!

In contrast, for elite marathons who are running 2h-2h20, their long runs typically go this long anyways so focusing on duration is not as much of a concern as the pace is (obviously).

Do a tempo run of 10-12 miles at sub-threshold pace. Then do 6 x 1 mile repeat at goal pace. That will get you used to running your goal pace on tired legs.

Sub-3 with a 1:25 half is a very ambitious goal; I think you have still run a very good marathon compared to your half and 10K times (and a great marathon if this was your first). You may have run a tad faster if you had kept 6:50 pace between miles 10 and 30. Not sure if you would have been able to break 3, though, but it might have been close.
If this was your first marathon, then I think you have a pretty good chance to break 3 soon. You may just need a little more training to reach your full potential.

I'm a firm believer that you get the time you deserve.

Your pacing was 10 seconds per mile too quick. But even with perfect pacing, you would only have been slightly quicker, less than a minute.