2:34 marathon to sub 2:20

You should hire a coach. Good luck in Chicago. It's a fantastic race.

Yes it is. That’s where I did my debut.

I think you shouldn't put so much pressure on yourself & should set some incremental goals. 2:34 is a great debut. 1:12 more/less aligns with it. Maybe it says 2:30-2:32 if it was 1:12-flat versus 1:12:59.

Maybe the plan for Chicago should be a sub-2:30 attempt. The injury stuff is obviously a concern. 70 or 80 miles/week is good but it's not 100+. I would get to PT & build out a strength training routine to keep you running. It's not impossible to OTQ on 80/week (see someone like Patrick Reeves) but you're definitely going to need to get a bit faster.

It's hard to get faster in perpetual marathon training. Minimum PRs needed: sub-15 5k, 31-ish 10k, 67 (maybe 68 & going for a ride at CIM) half. It might do you well do run something like 2:29-2:32 at Chicago in the fall and then skip the marathon until the fall of 2023. Run a winter & spring half in 2023. Run the 5k/10k. See what you can get your marathon potential down to. Then put in a good block of higher mileage & see if you can make a bigger jump. It's gonna be harder to do that with a 1:12 half & marathons off of 70-80/week.

We have talked before on here. My half is 1:12:15.

I agree with a lot of what you said. Right now I’m working with biomechanics specialist. Yes I do need to drop shorter distance prs. I think I can do it after marathon training. I plan to run Faxon Law 20k. I think I have a high 1:11 in me (aiming for 67:30-68:00 for 20k). After Chicago, I plan to do Houston and maybe Eugene. For fall 2023, Berlin. In 2024, Houston full depending how close I am.

It's an unreasonable goal near term goal. You are not going to run sub 2:20 in a fall marathon. It would be incredible, almost newsworthy improvement as a lifetime goal to be honest.

Probably not what you want to hear but I feel like part of the sport is setting realistic near term that inform medium and long term goals.

Just aim for improvement? Sub 2:30 would be exceptional improvement off of what you described.

I'm slower than you but even I know expecting 2:34 to 2:20 is nuts. That's like sub six miles vs. 5:20 miles. HUGE HUGE HUGE difference.

Yes I agree with you that there’s a low chance for 2024, which I mentioned. I’m thinking 2028 for that. For the fall, a PR would be nice and even sub 2:30.

In general, I think to go from 2:34 to 2:17 is possible. There guys who ran their first marathon around my debut time or slower ended up with sub 2:20.

To me it's the 72 minute half that makes it more unreasonable. It would be one thing if you were 24 with 14 flat 5k credentials or something but your shorter distance times also seem a light year away from 2:17:xx. Obviously anything is possible and I wish you the best and would love to see you succeed but it just isn't helpful or meaningful to lay out a goal of a 2028 OTQ at this point. There is nothing actionable you can do with it. Just build volume, stay healthy, maybe find a coach and try to chip away the minutes. Run some shorter distance cycles to make faster paces feel easier before coming back to the marathon. Rinse and repeat.

whether I get it or not, the overall goal is to get the best out of myself. I say this because even I don’t get it. I can look back years from now and say I gave my best.

For now, let’s see what happen by taking things one step at a time.

You remind me of me around the year 2000, hence the 2004 in my username. We can all dream can't we?

2:30:45 is the fastest I ever got after 8 years in my 20s of trying to run faster. At 30 married and with a kid I decided the training required just wasnt going to happen anymore.

What is in your favor is you have a lot of miles still to be run.

Hit the road. A lot more miles than you are currently doing. Try to break 2:30 first.

Alan

I'm also 29 and I debuted in fall 2017 with a 2:43, and recently ran 2:22 this year. So the jump you are looking for is certainly possible, though might take longer than 2024, as you have mentioned.

Key has been consistent mileage, though I will say that I had some inconsistencies in 2019 and 2020, but I really locked in throughout 2021.

Set intermittent, attainable goals. Stay healthy and churn out the miles on a daily basis, and focus on feel. Those days will turn to weeks, and those weeks will turn to months, and those months will turn to years...and a big breakthrough can and should happen down the road. You need to find a way to stay healthy though, and need to find what works for you. It may be PT, stretching more frequently, dietary changes, more sleep, etc. But it can be done.

What are your short race PRs and when were those set? Same for the OP. 5k/10k?

Alan

I ran a 14:51 track 5k in 2014 as a senior in college. Never raced a track 10k. Took about 3 years completely off before restarting running again summer 2017

5k: 15:52 post marathon debut Nov 2019

10k: 33:14 March 2019

I'm also 29 and hit 2:35 on my 2nd marathon. Looking to go sub 2:25 on a flatter course if I can ever overcome hamstring injury from last year. Never raced a good half before and no other impressive PRs. Hope we all can make it.

Sacrifice a bull to Zeus at midnight this year on June 24th (summer solstice full moon,) and his omnipotence shall grant your request.

I ran a similar debt of 2:34 in 2020. At the time I was making a comeback after about 10 years of not racing. I ran about 4x per week with a focus on one threshold or 10k pace session a week and a good quality long run often including some target marathon pace work. The other runs were 1 hour easy. I also cross trained on the bike and in the pool and did strength and conditioning work 2 X per week. My main focus was not to get injured and it worked in that sense. I underperformed a bit ( ran a 32 min 10k in the build up so should have been a bit faster for the marathon) but it was a very windy day running the same loop multiple times. Max Mileage was 60 or so but mostly 45-55.

After that I built up my mileage and started to run 6 X per week and ran sub 15 for 5k in spring 2021. I had a bit of a calf injury then 10 weeks to prepare for my next marathon in fall of 2021) after a couple of months of no running. I kept running 6 X per week but took a similar approach to the first with one threshold session a week (up to 8 X 2 miles) and a decent quality long run alternating between a shorter one of 18 to 22 miles with some marathon pace work and a longer off road hilly one from 20 - 26 miles at a more relaxed pace but still 30 -60 secs per mile faster than easy pace (in terms of effort as hills and off road made times much slower). I also built hill sprints into an easy run once per week. Something like 8*200m hills at 5k effort working down to mile effort. Towards the end of the build up I did a couple of 5k and 10k pace sessions. Mileage in the 10 weeks went something like 20, 30, 46, 57, 53 (half marathon race 70:30), 65, 80, 75, 56, 53 (including marathon race). Ran 2:25. I needed probably another 3-4 weeks to get close to 2:20 I think.

I don't run big mileage due to injury history but I believe you can run a good marathon from a focus on a good quality long run and long threshold sessions with a bit of faster running towards the end of the block. Cross training can be used to add more volume replacing some easy running without much detriment to performance. I place a high emphasis on strength and conditioning to stay injury free as I'm naturally tall and very thin so I need it! I ran 30:45 for 10k later in 2021 so my marathon performance is not as good as the shorter stuff which may be because of low mileage but I believe with a longer build up I could run 2:20 ish and high mileage is not necessary, at least for me.

1:12 HM does not bode well for sub 2:20 marathon, especially by this fall. I ran several minutes faster HM and never broke 2:30 for a full. Not to say it's out of reach, just that you have a lot of work to do. Lots of high quality miles and staying healthy are the prime objectives. take your HM to 1:08ish and see how that feels first.

Try sub 2:30 first. It’s way tougher than 2:34 and a big step for you not to underestimate.

i ran 1:09:57 in a half marathon but then couldn’t get the marathon right to break 2:30 for 5 years.

I was lower mileage (55-60), so I probably needed a few years of easy running at 80+ miles a week to get it right, but 2:20 seems far away for you.

small steps. Injury free running.