Wow. All Dragonfly-like products extinct starting Nov. 1 2024 as they move the standard down from 25mm to 20mm for 800m up on the track.
JYwl wrote:
Wow. All Dragonfly-like products extinct starting Nov. 1 2024 as they move the standard down from 25mm to 20mm for 800m up on the track.
The current standard for the sprints is 20mm. It may not be a good idea, but if you look up the shoe compliance list, it is legal to use the Dragonflies for the sprints. That implies that the Dragonflies are less than 20mm, so you still can use them in 2025.
I race in flats for the 5k and 10k, the streak lt lately. These rules wouldn't allow that shoe. In fact, I guess no current flat on the market would be allowed.
Also allowed to wear high stack road shoes in XC from now on…
Good change IMO, especially for gravel/dirt courses
The no embedded sensors part is interesting. Wonder how that might impact UA’s upcoming super-shoe since they seem to like stuffing that sort of thing into their shoes.
Set your WRs while you can. All track stack heights must be below 20mm by Nov 1, 2024. What I don't get is why if you are going to limit that for track, why you don't limit it for the road? Or if you are going to allow a big stack height for the road, why not allow it also for the distance races on the track? I don't understand the lack of logical consistency. Right now, you can go up to 25mm in the triple jump, all track events 800 and above and cross country. As of Nov 1, 2024, you have to go down to 20mm for all of those events. This doesn't change things for the roads at all.
WA wrote:
The new rules and regulations will be in place from 1 January 2022. The amendments include:
The deletion of the transitional provisions inserted in 2020 and 2021, leaving just an enabling rule at Technical Rule 5.2.
A definition of ‘applicable competitions’ to make the scope of events the rule and regulations apply to clear and to avoid them being applied to amateur club, school or college or even masters level competitions.
Clarification on which types of customisations are permissible with prior approval from World Athletics. This is to allow adaptations for individual athletes on medical and safety grounds.
The simplification on sole thicknesses across all athletic shoes in track and field events to a stack height of 20mm from 1 November 2024. This timeline was agreed to give manufacturers sufficient notice following the significant investment they will have made into spike shoes with a sole thickness between 20 and 25mm. The current sole thicknesses will continue until then.
A more flexible compliance process for athletic shoes to make checking compliance more practical and efficient depending on the nature of the event. Greater emphasis will be placed on conducting post-race spot checks through the introduction of shoe control procedures and a shoe control officer role. There will be some events (e.g. major marathons) where pre-event declarations will continue.
A new approach to sanctions for breaches of the rules and regulations relating to athletic shoes particularly at events and breaches that come to light post event. Referees’ powers have been made clearer and World Athletics CEO or their nominee has been given the authority to act (or refer the matter to the AIU) where post-competition breaches are identified.
That athletic shoes must not contain any embedded ‘sensing or intelligent’ technology now or in the future. This does not apply to use of heart rate, speed distance monitors etc.
Minor word changes and phrasing as part of a general tidying up of the language in the rules and regulations.
Commenting on the new regulations, World Athletics’ Chief Executive Jon Ridgeon said: “There has been an enormous amount of background work and meetings held both internally and externally on our shoe rules since the inception of the Working Group on Athletic Shoes in June 2020, following on from the work in 2019 of its predecessor, the Assistance Review Group. There is still more to do but I would like to thank the Working Group, the World Federation of the Sporting Goods Industry (WFSGI) and the shoe companies for their openness and collaboration in finding solutions that help support innovation on the one hand while ensuring innovation in shoe technology does not create unfairness or a paradigm shift in athletic performances on the other.”
The major and central issue the Working Group on Athletic Shoes had been exploring is a long-term sustainable and implementable solution for athletic shoes which balances innovation and fairness.
The Working Group considered options within a framework of measuring performance advantages of the current technology in athletic shoes including energy return. While this work has merit, a maximum energy return has not been included in the rules and regulations, given the variables involved and the
potential impact on shoe manufacturers in its implementation. The pace of technological change in every sector is rapidly increasing and with it will come new and different challenges to all sport. World Athletics will continue its dialogue with the shoe manufacturing industry on a regular basis in 2022 and beyond.
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Is stack height the same as heel toe offset?
So the new rules are not applicable to school, college and masters competition. Does this mean Vaporfly and similar road supershoes will be legal on the track for these groups?
I know 90% of you won't care, but losing 5mm is potentially a big deal in the triple jump. Triple jumpers might have to start wearing heel cups with some type of padding inside their shoes.
It will have no impact at all, until the next few WR's happen, and then everyone will be talking about some new gimmick in the short-stack shoes that makes them faster.
You're old enough to have seen this marketing stuff play out a million times, I'm sure.
Stack height refers to the height in mm of foam under certain areas of the shoe.
Heel toe offset is the difference, typically measured from the heel to the toe and the offset is how much less the forefoot is compared to the heel.
no need to panic wrote:
JYwl wrote:
Wow. All Dragonfly-like products extinct starting Nov. 1 2024 as they move the standard down from 25mm to 20mm for 800m up on the track.
The current standard for the sprints is 20mm. It may not be a good idea, but if you look up the shoe compliance list, it is legal to use the Dragonflies for the sprints. That implies that the Dragonflies are less than 20mm, so you still can use them in 2025.
A spike has normally zero drop....
KAV wrote:
no need to panic wrote:
The current standard for the sprints is 20mm. It may not be a good idea, but if you look up the shoe compliance list, it is legal to use the Dragonflies for the sprints. That implies that the Dragonflies are less than 20mm, so you still can use them in 2025.
A spike has normally zero drop....
He's referring to the stack height.
Not true , the changes will be nothing special. Dragonfly is 20mm so still ok with the new rules. Only the +20mm spikes (who are already banned for 100-400m these days) will also be banned for distance after Paris. So the 20mm rule will be for each event which makes it more easyier in general.
The only significant spikes who are +20mm are NB LDX and the Asics prototypes (Katir), but 98% of the runners spikes will stay legal. Nikes TJ spikes is also 25mm so will be illegal too.
Not much of an effect. There were only a handful of spikes in the 20-25 mm limit (NB, Asics, and Saucony has one in development, I believe)
The main contenders - the Nike Dragonfly and Victory and the Adidas Avanti - are under 20 mm (as measured by WA)
It does cap the development of thicker spikes though. I suspected we were going to see a trend of thicker offerings up to that 25 mm limit for distance races (a la NB and Asics), but now we won’t.
Will Spain roll back Katir’s records? Ha.
Here’s the WA list that shows which shoes are 20 vs 25 mm, etc.
So no changes made at all to road cheater shoes?
Complete cop out if you ask me.
Burnsy wrote:
Not much of an effect. There were only a handful of spikes in the 20-25 mm limit (NB, Asics, and Saucony has one in development, I believe)
The main contenders - the Nike Dragonfly and Victory and the Adidas Avanti - are under 20 mm (as measured by WA)
It does cap the development of thicker spikes though. I suspected we were going to see a trend of thicker offerings up to that 25 mm limit for distance races (a la NB and Asics), but now we won’t.
Will Spain roll back Katir’s records? Ha.
Here’s the WA list that shows which shoes are 20 vs 25 mm, etc.
https://www.worldathletics.org/download/download?filename=73aae1e3-7d1e-4704-bfe6-415d96103ddf.pdf&urlslug=World%20Athletics%20Shoe%20Compliance%20List%20(as%20at%2015%20October%202021)
Thick foam is probably the least of Katir’s potential assistance.
KAV wrote:
no need to panic wrote:
The current standard for the sprints is 20mm. It may not be a good idea, but if you look up the shoe compliance list, it is legal to use the Dragonflies for the sprints. That implies that the Dragonflies are less than 20mm, so you still can use them in 2025.
A spike has normally zero drop....
lol do y'all just like to talk without knowing what you are talking about.